Forum — Tournament Committee

Roger-ua

5/21/2017 3:23 PM UTC

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Were there any problems when restructuring the map editor? Specifically, did the ability to restructure the map editor disappear, even though it was present and used in the game?

Весна 2013.

Marmot

5/23/2017 8:41 AM UTC

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How does a blind person play video games?

Using a documentary video on Youtube, independent director Berk Ichel told about a very unusual gamer - Toby Otte, who was born blind, and even complete blindness did not prevent him from becoming a huge fan of video games...
this terrible ailment did not prevent Otte from playing music, performing on stage, and, paradoxically, from loving to watch TV and play video games.

Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)

KobRa_RR

6/25/2017 11:26 AM UTC

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Does anyone want to organize a mirror-SOD?

In reply to KobRa_RR

Wicc

6/25/2017 12:03 PM UTC

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KobRa_RR

Does anyone want to organize a mirror-SOD tournament?

Please consider the time difference. So as not to duplicate similar tournaments.

In reply to Wicc

KobRa_RR

6/25/2017 12:16 PM UTC

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Wicc

Please stagger the timing. To avoid duplicating similar tournaments.

There aren't many active tournaments right now, so if you increase the time between them, you can run them in parallel or have two brackets, and some players can participate in both at the same time.

In reply to KobRa_RR

Grando

6/25/2017 2:25 PM UTC

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Wicc

Disabled by default.

What I meant was, what is the nature of the mentioned "asymmetry" in the rebuilding process?
update While waiting for an answer, I think I figured it out myself – it's like a mirror, but the guild will rebuild differently in symmetrical cities for different opponents. BUT how does this imply that it's better to disable it than to enable it? The logic is interesting. What are the advantages of this decision, and what disadvantages were considered?

And another question – why set a timer of 16+8+1 with a turn time of 117 seconds for a tournament that is supposed to be the "most prestigious"?
h3dm1 is a very skilled and complex map from the very beginning to the very end, and both the early and late game are very intense, and this isn't even an average timer – it's a fast timer.
lucky has been playing a lot of mirror matches recently (and I've been watching his streams), and the way he manages things in the late game is impressive, so why risk it? You could add 15 seconds to the battle time and 30 seconds to the turn time, and add a few more minutes to the starting time; I think 20 to 25 minutes would be a good starting value.
Compared to SoD, 7 days of simultaneous turns still noticeably save overall game time.

https://www.twitch.tv/grando__

In reply to KobRa_RR

ЯR

6/25/2017 7:12 PM UTC

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and what are some interesting restrictions on heroes? wouldn't it be easier to just ban them?

In reply to ЯR

Wicc

6/25/2017 7:17 PM UTC

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YaR

What are the interesting restrictions on heroes? Wouldn't it be easier to just ban them?

There isn't a software ban yet. When it appears, there will be one. For now, there are verbal restrictions. Mirror matches have been played with similar restrictions for a long time, just for fun.

In reply to Grando

KobRa_RR

6/25/2017 8:00 PM UTC

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Al Feyn

And another question - why set a timer of 16+8+1 with 117 OH on a tournament, which is supposed to be the "most prestigious"?
h3dm1 is a very skilled and complex map from the very beginning to the end, and both the early and late game are very intense. This isn't even an average timer; it's a fast timer.
lucky has been playing a lot of mirror matches recently (and I've been watching his streams), and the way he maneuvers in the late game is impressive. Why risk such a beautiful strategy? You could add 15 seconds to the battle time and 30 seconds to the turn time, and increase the starting time by another 20 to 25 minutes, which I think would be a good starting value.
Compared to Shades of Darkness, 7 days of simultaneous turns still noticeably save overall game time.

+1.

In reply to KobRa_RR

Xocenk

6/25/2017 8:00 PM UTC

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It's also unclear why the timer was reduced. Why not use the existing rules (21:00 + 08:30 + 01:15)? With Online Battles, there isn't enough time to think between turns. Sometimes, I have to intentionally skip a turn and think about what to do on the next turn, assess the defenses of the objects (I don't have a calculator in my head, and I don't have that much experience). Maybe I'm just being overly critical.

ICQ - 703804372
Discord - Xocenk#2473

In reply to Wicc

MinasMorgul

6/25/2017 8:26 PM UTC

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Wicc

There isn't a software ban yet. When it appears, it will be implemented. For now, there are verbal restrictions. Mirror matches have been played with similar restrictions for a long time, just for fun.

I'm interested in how the hero restrictions will be controlled. After all, opponents don't always stream, and it's impossible to keep an eye on every Jeremy player. For example, unlike Magic. + Will there be a ban on these heroes, or will they simply be unable to upgrade their skills (logistics/archery/fire magic) to the last slot?
If it's possible to control this, please let me know.

In reply to MinasMorgul

Wicc

6/25/2017 10:48 PM UTC

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Guys, this is already the 5th tournament where mirrored maps with a 16+8+1 timer are used. Why are questions about this only starting to arise now?

The general answer is that this timer is simple, elegant, and versatile. When the game creation interface allows you to set the timer not with numbers, but with buttons like Blitz/Rapid/Classic, the numbers will be exactly like this: 8+4+1/12+6+1/16+8+1. No one will create buttons like 21+8:30+1:15, because these numbers are not aesthetically pleasing; it's better to just use 20+10+1.

I can't imagine why 16+8+1 is considered "extremely short," while 21+8:30+1 is considered "just right." Why not 24+9+1 then? The arguments would be exactly the same.

Yes, it's more difficult to play perfectly on a mirrored map with the same timer compared to, for example, Jebel or HLU. But the point isn't to play perfectly, but to play better than your opponent, taking into account all factors, including the timer.

So, let's not bring up this issue again and again. There are as many opinions as there are people; we need to settle on something. These extra 30 seconds per turn won't globally change anything.

In reply to MinasMorgul

Wicc

6/25/2017 11:03 PM UTC

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Not very epic

I'm interested in how the hero restrictions will be controlled. After all, opponents don't always stream, and it's impossible to keep an eye on everything Jeremy does with his artillery. Let's say, unlike in Might and Magic, for example. Also, the option of banning these heroes or preventing them from leveling up (logistics/archery/fire magic) to the last skill slot. If there's a way to control this, please let me know.

Just like now - in no way. Be honest, how many of you review your opponent's save files looking for violations? Or even just review the save files in more detail than just "what did my opponent have"? I think it's very few. Violations are usually caught either with streamers or if someone accidentally reveals something.

The proposed restriction option is based on the fact that sometimes heroes are found in prisons already leveled up, sometimes they are caught in taverns after being leveled up by companions, and sometimes they receive skill advancements from a scholar. What should be done in these cases?

I've seen several similar episodes on streams, and dialogues in chat immediately started, like:
- Well, I have a Dess with an experience-boosting logistics skill from the prison.
- Well, don't use her like a main hero.
- But what if I have a level 5 main hero and a level 15 secondary hero, Dess, who does everything because the main hero hasn't leveled up his earth magic? (and he won't level it up because "Dess does everything")

I took these situations into account in the rules. If you come up with a better option, no problem, I'll change the rules. The main thing is that it covers all possible scenarios and doesn't consist of 100,500 points.

The rule should be simple, clear, and unambiguous.

P.S. What does "banning these heroes" mean?

In reply to Wicc

Grando

6/25/2017 11:28 PM UTC

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Wicc

Guys, this is already the 5th tournament where mirror matches with a 16+8+1 timer are used. Why are questions about the timer only being raised now?

Because this is the first tournament strictly focused on mirror matches with this timer.
This is the 2nd tournament featuring mirror matches. And in the 1st tournament, which is linked in the first post, where Helllight was the winner, the timer was normal.
In all other tournaments, h3dm1 was in the pool of available maps, so they didn't focus on it because of just one h3dm1.

But this tournament is specifically and strictly about mirror matches. So why not discuss what a normal timer would be specifically for these mirror matches?

Wicc, I'm not insisting that you pay attention to my personal opinion. But why don't you ask the strongest players in private about their opinion on the timer? After all, when it came to limiting the most overpowered heroes, you made a decision based on the experience of the strongest players in mirror matches. Why not do the same with the timer? What if what you're trying to achieve now is just ruining the fun for a part of the community that is ready to play mirror matches? I might be wrong in my position, but you might be wrong too. I'm just suggesting that you double-check your position by asking the opinion of the most skilled players.

The talk about non-round numbers, sorry, that's not the main point. I completely agree with you that instead of 21:00-08:30-01:15, you can use 24/25-9-1.
The point is not in that. The point is which numbers to choose as a basis for the decision.
Okay, if you want round numbers, then the point is to more carefully choose between 16-8-1 and 24/25-9-1.

p.s. And 16-8-1 is not classic. If we use such shortened terms, it would be something like blitz 8-4-1, rapid 12-6-1, fast 16-8-1, standard 25-9-1, slow 35-10-1:30. But standard/classic is the option that should ideally be close to today's seasonal rules of 21:00-08:30-01:15. These are good, working numbers. This is the best that the community has been able to come up with so far, so that it doesn't allow players to be lazy and doesn't reduce the quality of the game. Is there any justified criticism of them? And in HotA, there are also simultaneous turns, and this timer doesn't allow you to relax even for a second. Further tightening will inevitably lead to a loss of game quality. Is this really necessary in what is supposed to be the most skilled tournament?

https://www.twitch.tv/grando__