Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments. — Tournament Committee

Yosha

9 years ago

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Here's another option. If it's possible to implement a button lock for the person who uploaded the file, then there's no need to create new files. The lock would be removed after entering the passwords, and then the game could be viewed freely.

Antoshka

9 years ago

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Seriously, guys? Are you talking about completely reworking the game so that no one can use the "look" ability when loading a saved game?

I'm just curious, how much does an hour of a programmer's work on Heroes 3 cost?
And I also suggest that God intervene in our lives and rewrite our DNA so that no one lies. We simply can't live like this anymore!!! Let's vote!!!

Formally speaking, yes, it's a game action, and if there was an "end of turn," then there shouldn't be a continuation, but again, what is an "end of turn"? Often, players do it just because the opponent asked them to.
And is such a minor thing as casting "look" really a crime?
Essentially, the player is remembering the geography and position on the map – which they knew when they were playing, and at that time, they were using "look" and using that information. Why shouldn't they be able to do it when continuing the game?

For example:
Day 121, Jebus. Preparing to move to the center. I use "look" to prepare, and then the opponent asks me to save the game. So, at the time of the save, I have information from "look."
Time passes... we continue the game.
Oops!!! – I no longer have the information from "look," and using it now threatens me with a technical loss.

In reply to Antoshka

Dirty_Player

9 years ago

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Sevansan

zloy_romantikMost of the referees agreed that actions (completing moves, using previews, setting up, etc.) taken by the player who uploaded the save are a violation of fair play rules and will be penalized with technical defeats; this addition will be included in the rules section soon.

/topic/at/1006028/
I posted a report for the referees here. Please review it.They reviewed it long ago, but for some reason, they haven't written the decision yet. In fact, the referees decided to annul the match. Next time, if there are violations during save loading that contradict the fair play rules, technical defeats will be issued.

Dark

9 years ago

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I actually think it’s absurd to punish players for using replays. In other words, it turns out like this: I play a game with Dirty, let’s say it’s an HL map, so we save it on June 5th with a time of 145, for example, and continue on June 29th. I don’t remember anything and decide to use replays, which cost 1 mana each. Even if there are some games where 1-4 mana will decide the game, there will be a maximum of 2-3 of them out of 100 games (and if there was a load after viewing the replay, I don’t see anything critical in this either). In percentage terms, these games will account for ~2-3%, and remembering what the map was is actually a relevant topic.
I don’t understand why top players don’t comment on this topic here. For example, when playing with Ivan aka FireToSky, I’m sure that if he uses replays, I won’t say a word about it, knowing this. At the same time, I doubt that the opposite would happen, if I use replays, and he would criticize me for it. I think the same will happen in games with Hellight, Lizard, Homunculus, Lucky, Amilu, Amsterdam, etc. (top-level players).

In reply to Dark

Dirty_Player

9 years ago

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Dark

Frankly, I think it's absurd to penalize players for using replays. In other words, the situation is this: I'm playing a game against Dirty, let's say it's an HL map, and we save the game on June 5th with a turn count of 145. We continue on June 29th, and I don't remember anything, so I decide to use replays.

Then, here's a counter-question for you. Why should you be allowed to use replays during bonus time, while I have to play my next turn within my allotted time? :confused:

Dark

9 years ago

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This is already a nuance. Let's say, if you want to talk about unfairness, why are you red, and I'm blue, and why did they remove Red Rush from the HotA ladder?! My point was that this isn't a critical violation that warrants canceling the game or, let alone, giving a technical loss.

To rephrase, the Arbitration Committee has decided to cancel a game in which someone was completely dominated, because the dominator used a spell after a long save, using 1-2 mana?! So, the game was won only because of watching the replay, is that what it means?! I highly doubt it. In other words, without seeing the game, a decision was made to cancel a one-sided game, in which the outcome would not have changed regardless of whether SevenSun watched the replay or not.

P.S.

I want to see how the issue was presented to the Arbitration Committee for this match and who voted how, because I think it was mentioned somewhere that the results of each vote would be published?!

=Lizard=

9 years ago

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Banning something that is not always easy to track is, in any case, a nonsensical idea. It will result in a purely Russian-style law: "if not caught, then not a thief; if not proven, then not a thief; if not bribed, then not a thief; and only if..."

In reply to =Lizard=

Dark

9 years ago

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=Lizard=

Banning something that is not always easy to track is, in any case, a ridiculous idea. It will result in a purely Russian-style law: "If you're not caught, you're not a thief; if it's not proven, you're not a thief; if you don't bribe, you're not a thief, and only if..."

By the way, I wouldn't mind if these views were somehow banned through an HD mod after downloads. But punishing those who are caught and not punishing those who aren't is complete nonsense, especially since, as I said above, it's not even a violation (if it's a violation at all).

LuckyF

9 years ago

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The decision is, to put it mildly, strange. To cancel a match when one of the opponents refused to continue playing for six months (even with arguments that the opponent hadn't paid someone for something else), and the other opponent quite logically wanted to remember at least something about the situation, especially in a situation where, as I understand it, the plaintiff had no chance of winning. What kind of encouragement is this for cheating?)) And why, then, are screenshots of replays not prohibited, if using it during save loading is a violation?

In reply to LuckyF

Wicc

9 years ago

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In my opinion, it would be good to allow viewing replays after a delay, provided that the opponent can also study them without spending time from the timer. Or somehow implement this restriction programmatically. And in any case, punishing for a controversial moment that is not specified in the rules is wrong. It turns out that a rule was introduced and a punishment was applied retroactively. As if the law does not have retroactive effect.

Diabler

9 years ago

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Yes, it's right to ban everything! We need to be prepared for anything, and like the "daddies" do, screenshot the previews in advance and save them somewhere until we finish playing.

In reply to Dark

RiMpel2

9 years ago

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Dark

I actually think it's ridiculous to punish people for using replays. In other words, it's like this: I play a game against Dirty, let's say it's an HL map, so we save it on June 5th with a turn count of 145, for example, and continue on June 29th. I don't remember anything and decide to use replays.

He should have taken screenshots on June 5th and memorized the map by June 29th.

dom2

9 years ago

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The rule (or prohibition) should be simple and clear – **no actions should be taken during bonus time**. That is, no mana should be spent (blocking ground/air vision), no buildings should be completed, no units should be rearranged in the army, no single units should be detached, etc.

Otherwise, Occam's razor is violated. For example, if vision is allowed, then someone detaches 1 unit – well, it's allowed, then someone detaches 2, 3..., then someone builds something. Should there be a separate rule for each case? Where to draw the line between a violation and "almost not a violation," and most importantly, why?

KobRa_RR

9 years ago

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Nothing can be done after a turn has been made! (and submitted! This is ideal). It doesn't matter if it's during bonus time or not. In general, a set of rules for postponing a match should be written, and all controversial points should be discussed there, so that there are no situations like "the power went out, and I also disappeared for three months" :)

In reply to KobRa_RR

=Lizard=

9 years ago

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KobRa_RR

You can't do anything after a turn has been made! (and submitted! This is ideal). It doesn't matter if it's during bonus time or not. In general, we need to write a set of rules for postponing a game and discuss all controversial points there, so that it doesn't happen that "the power went out, and I disappeared for three months too" :)

Artem, sorry, but reading this from you is hilarious ))) It seems that even the concept of "papal postponement" was created by you )))