Discussion of the “Knights of Honor” tournament. — Tournament history (offline)

PALADIN

19 years ago

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I created this thread to discuss the tournaments being held, their rules, their organizers, and their participants. Sorry for the unpleasant things I will be writing here, but it's been building up. It really has, and it only gets worse over time. Let me add that I am a psychologist by profession and a political strategist in life, so I can clearly see when "someone is pulling strings." This concerns the "Knights of Honor" tournament and its organizers, whom I include: Varg-Nar, Qwerty, Firelord, and VDV forever. No matter what anyone says, this tournament was their idea, and they are all working together to protect what they have created. Today, I won't even discuss the rules or the game version; much has already been written about that. I want to draw attention to the following quote: /topic/at/32191/ I would also like to remind you that this tournament is CLOSED. And you can only participate in it by invitation from the organizers. The rules were discussed by the participants. What do you all think about this? Apparently, we can only participate in the tournament with the greatest permission of the organizers. Otherwise, we are nobody here, and we can be excluded at any moment without explanation, and even accused of unfair play! I understand why this happened. As soon as normal players joined the tournament, they decided to keep them out by any means necessary. Look how long nprf asked for save files to be sent. And he received them… not from the organizers, but from the coordinator of rental tournaments – Natasha! And now, after playing and sending all the saves, he isn’t even a participant in the tournament!!! What the heck!? Natasha, maybe you could just close the thread about the closed tournament as a moderator.

Sergh

19 years ago

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I don't think there's anything wrong with the tournament organizers defending their creation... I don't understand why this should cause any complaints... The rules for this tournament were indeed discussed and varied. In the end, they were developed as they are now. The fact that they don't quite match the rules used on other portals, or are unacceptable to some users of the portal, doesn't mean they are incorrect. This tournament was originally conceived as a tournament for friends, not a tournament for a strict ranking, and that's why this tournament is closed and somewhat unique. ANYONE who wanted to could apply, and I'm sure they would have been invited to the tournament, so your phrase about the "greatest favor of the organizers" sounds, to put it mildly, a bit pompous. In this tournament, no one is accused of cheating because it was originally based on mutual trust and honesty. This is truly an attempt to hold a friendly tournament in which everyone knows and trusts each other... As far as I know, no one has expelled players who joined the tournament after it started, and there is no policy that "we don't want to include strong players who can provide good competition." The tournament has simply already started and is underway... I was especially pleased with your suggestion to Natasha - to close this topic as a moderator.... This was suggested by a person who was just accusing others of unequal treatment of forum participants?) In general, in my opinion, "the problem lies elsewhere" than you indicate, dear colleague :) All of this is my personal opinion, and it may have nothing to do with the opinion of the tournament organizers and the administration of this site.

natasha

19 years ago

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PALADIN;32305

Natasha, maybe you could just close the thread about the closed tournament, as a moderator.

I appreciated the joke!
I don't want to waste any more time on this discussion. The example with nprf is very telling. He did everything as they instructed, and in response, there was silence...
And that's despite the fact that half of the tournament organizers saw his messages on the forum. And his request to send the save files, etc.

I won't participate in such a tournament, and they can do whatever they want!

If they want to build a new pyramid, similar to heroexportal, with closed tournaments, let them do it.

AlexeyPank

19 years ago

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But this is truly a tournament for friends! Some were chosen, some weren't, but what's the point of getting upset? I'm participating in this tournament not for the sake of winning, not for the sake of the ranking. I just want to play. I'm sure I won't even make it into the top three, but I'll still play. The discussion about this tournament started back in July, and those who didn't want to join then should blame themselves. I don't want to offend anyone, but they should have acted faster. IMHO.

In reply to AlexeyPank

Ta Kotoraya...

19 years ago

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AlexeyPank;32337

But this is truly a tournament for friends! Some were chosen, some weren't, but what's the point of getting offended? I'm not playing in this tournament for the sake of winning or for the ranking. I just want to play. I'm sure I won't even make it into the top three, but I'm still playing. The discussion about this tournament started back in July, and those who didn't want to join then should blame themselves. I don't want to offend anyone, but they should have acted faster. IMHO.

I absolutely agree! I'm not playing for the sake of winning either – rather, I just want to test my skills... And regarding the deadlines – yes, the discussion lasted for more than a month! But for some reason, I didn't see Natasha on the forum at that time. Yes, she may have had her own reasons for not being here. But as they say, those who don't hurry miss out. No offense... Besides, dear critics, you yourselves say that the tournament is wrong, bad, stupid, and too easy – so why are you so eager to participate in it? If you don't like some of the conditions, please ignore it, don't participate, organize another tournament with your own rules! As far as I understand, that's what dear Natasha is doing now. Well, that's great! It's good for you, and it's good for all of us! ;) Those who want to can participate here and there. Isn't that right? :)
Yes, and here's something else...

As soon as normal players joined the tournament, they decided to exclude them by any means.

As for this – it's utter nonsense! It's not about a strong player joining – that's all! We're not playing for a cow or $100,000,000 here :D

In reply to AlexeyPank

PALADIN

19 years ago

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AlexeyPank;32337

But this is truly a tournament of friends! Some were chosen, some weren't, but what's the point of getting offended? I'm not playing in this tournament for the sake of winning, not for the sake of the ranking. I just want to play. I'm sure I won't even make it into the top three, but I'll still play. The discussion about this tournament started back in July, and those who didn't want to join it then should blame themselves. I don't want to offend anyone, but they should have acted quickly. IMHO.

I'm not offended, I'm used to such tricks in club online games...
The question was very simple: do you like this attitude of the organizers and are you satisfied with the level of preparation for the tournament?

I would also like to note that nprf did participate in the discussion. And I will remind you that at that time, most players were in favor of playing on SoD 3.2. And what save was used?!! Or am I wrong again.

Added 3 minutes ago

Ta Kotoraya...;32373

Anyone who wants to can participate here and there. Isn't that right? :)

That's the essence of the problem. Playing on a starting save with bugs and a high probability of random factors makes you lose all desire to play.

Added 3 minutes ago

Sergh;32311

ANYONE who wanted could apply, and I'm sure they would have been invited to the tournament, so your phrase about the "greatest will of the organizers" sounds, to put it mildly, a bit pompous.

As far as I know, no one expelled the players who joined the tournament after it started, and there is no policy here that "we don't want to include strong players in the tournament who can provide good competition." The tournament has already started and is underway...

But how else can one react to ignoring messages on the forum and not immediately adding 5 people to the list of participants? How can you play in such an ambiguous situation?

And when people are openly told to go away - what is that?

Qwerty

19 years ago

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Colleagues! I suggest we avoid creating conflict. Let's discuss this calmly and without emotions.
As I understand it, it was my post that caused such a strong reaction.
First, let me remind you that I am not the organizer of the Tournaments. Also, I am not a moderator for the third game. In this regard, I expressed my personal opinion, and there is no need to blame the organizers of the Tournaments.
I expressed myself in this way only because that is how it is. The Tournament is indeed closed. But this does not mean that you cannot apply to participate in the Tournament. And the organizers will decide whether to accept this participant or not.
Personally, I advocated for some participants with the organizers. The organizers kindly added people to the list of participants.
There is no need to make the organizers of the Tournament out to be some kind of monsters. They came up with a great idea and implemented it. The flaws in the saves... they happen to almost everyone. He who does nothing makes no mistakes.

We need different types of Tournaments, and in large numbers. There are closed and open Tournaments. And that is normal.
I hope for your understanding,
Qwerty

In reply to Qwerty

PALADIN

19 years ago

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Qwerty;32970

Colleagues! I suggest we don't create a conflict. Let's calmly sort things out without emotions.
As I understand it, it was my post that caused such a sharp reaction.
First, let me remind you that I am not the organizer of the tournament. Also, I am not a moderator for the third game. In this regard, I expressed my personal opinion, and there is no need to blame the tournament organizers.
I expressed myself in this way only because that is how it is. The tournament is indeed closed. But this does not mean that you cannot apply to participate in the tournament. And the organizers will decide whether to accept this participant or not.
Personally, I advocated for some participants with the organizers. The organizers kindly added people to the list of participants.
There is no need to make monsters out of the tournament organizers. They came up with a great idea and implemented it. There are shortcomings in the saves... they happen to almost everyone. When I held a tournament for the second game, one of the best Heroes of Might and Magic 2 players in the world checked the save. I'm not exaggerating, it's really true. Well, we both reviewed one of the possible scenarios. And I came up with this scenario only in the middle of the tournament. And then it turned out that the path that we tried to make impossible was still passed by one of the participants! After that, I voluntarily resigned from the position of tournament host on another portal, but here, if a new host is not found, I will again host tournaments. Because no one is perfect.
Now, back to the problem of closed tournaments. Once, I tried to come to parks and play chess. As a rule, I was not invited to play. For various reasons: for some, I was too weak, for some, too strong, for some, I was just an outsider. And if people played without a clock, and I offered them sports rules (blitz, take-and-move, eating the king, etc.) - they ignored me.
If you come to a chess tournament with a fifteen-minute time control and say "let's play blitz" - they will say "go where they play blitz".
Different tournaments are needed, and in large numbers. There are closed and open tournaments. And that's normal.
I hope for understanding,
Qwerty

Although Natasha asked me to stop this discussion, I will speak for the last time.
The essence of the claims is simple: If the organizers think that their task is to post an assignment, and after the deadline, summarize the results... then what is the point of such organizers? The first stage has been going on for a long time, there are more and more people willing to participate, but who responded to their requests?!
Secondly, the infamous closed tournaments. This naturally follows from the first point. Will anyone play if they are not sure that they will be accepted into the tournament?!
And thirdly, Natasha specifically suggested how to improve the game on SoD using TE. Only three points, expecting an answer. What was the answer?!

I agree about the errors, they happen, but you need to be able to admit them!!!

And the only thing I was harsh about was my attitude towards the old version of the game.
Why wasn't patch 3.2 installed, which doesn't change anything in SoD, but only removes bugs???

In reply to Sergh

nprf

19 years ago

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Sergh;32311

ANYONE who wanted to could apply and I am sure they would have been invited to the tournament,

Well, one example confirms this.
The winner of the offline tournament for Heroes 2 vbs applied on July 25 and he is still not on the list!!!
There has been no reply to my email with saves sent already 10 days ago.

Therefore, PALADIN's conclusion may be correct!

Added after 10 minutes

Qwerty;32970

As I understand it, my post specifically caused such a sharp reaction.
Qwerty

An apology would be appropriate, not excuses.

Firelord could not have missed my request to send the saves; his post was immediately after mine. Or is he not an organizer either? What, do we only have one organizer and it's unknown where to find them???
The issue is not about the rules, but specifically about the attitude toward people!!!

AlexeyPank

19 years ago

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Regarding the issue of someone not being included in the list, I'll share my own experience. I had to wait about a month before I was added after submitting my applications. And I even had a personal invitation from one of the organizers. So, I suggest that those who haven't been added to the list write a personal letter to the organizers (as I did) and wait. I think the decision will be positive.

Qwerty

19 years ago

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2 Paladin
Posting the tournament details and summarizing the results is one of the main tasks of the organizers. If you were willing to take on these responsibilities in tournaments for the second game, I would be very happy and would assist you in any way I could!
Second: if the tournament is closed, you need to contact the organizers and ask to be included in the tournament.
Third: the tournament is held in a specific version of the game.

In reply to Qwerty

nprf

19 years ago

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Qwerty;33091

Added 6 minutes later
[/U]
AlexeyPank;33074Regarding not including someone in the list, I'll give my example. I had to wait about a month before I was included after submitting applications. And at the same time, I had a personal invitation from one of the organizers. So, I suggest that those who were not included in the list write a personal letter to the organizers (as I did), and wait. I think the decision will be positive.

That's exactly what I'm talking about! This is not how tournaments should be run. Why should someone wait around idly.
And who said that this wasn't done? Many, including myself, acted this way. First, I write to QWERTY, he sends me to the organizers, I write to the next one, then on the forum, and then I start complaining. And in response, I only get suggestions to go back where I came from! And questions like: "Where were you?"

In reply to nprf

Varg-Nar

19 years ago

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Dear nprf, if you still have some questions, please allow me to answer them; feel free to ask... I apologize for not being on the forum; my computer was taken away, and I couldn't access the internet... I would have responded to all requests from participants because I am a man of my word. You can blame me for not responding, but I didn't have the opportunity; I apologize again to you personally and to the participants... PALADIN, the arguments started because I was absent; don't blame others; come at me... Regarding the appearance of new participants, I am not against it, but there should be arguments in favor of their worthiness (if I see them for the first time, what opinion can I form about them? Then another participant in the tournament or a respected person on our forum can express their opinion about him, thereby supporting him... and the organizers will add him to the list...). I want to note that I am not a moderator and cannot edit or add changes to other people's messages... And I don't often interact with Firelord because it was his idea from the beginning, and I don't want to make decisions without his opinion.

In reply to Varg-Nar

natasha

19 years ago

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Varg-Nar;34250

The PALADIN arguments started because I was absent; there's no need to blame others, go ahead and attack me... Regarding the appearance of new participants, I'm not against it, but there should be arguments in favor of their worthiness (if I see them for the first time, what opinion can I form about them? Then another tournament participant or a respected person on our forum can express their opinion about him, thereby supporting him... and the organizers will add him to the list...). I want to note that I am not a moderator and cannot make changes or additions to other messages... And with Firelord, you don't often interact, because it was his idea from the beginning, and I don't want to make decisions without his opinion...

As a moderator, I can make changes to the list.
But what changes? I always create the list of participants in the rental tournament not from those who want to participate, but from those who sent in their saves!
If you had initially followed this path, there would have been fewer arguments.

In reply to Varg-Nar

PALADIN

19 years ago

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Varg-Nar;34250

Dear nprf, if you still have some questions, please allow me to answer them. Feel free to ask... I apologize for not being on the forum; my computer was taken away, and I couldn't access the internet... I would have responded to all requests from participants because I am a man of my word. You can blame me for not responding, but I didn't have the opportunity. Once again, I deeply apologize to you personally and to the participants....

PALADIN, the arguments started because I was absent. Don't blame others; come at me... Regarding the appearance of new participants, I'm not against it, but there should be arguments in favor of their worthiness (if I'm seeing them for the first time, what opinion can I form about them? Then another participant in the tournament or a respected person on our forum can express their opinion about him, thereby supporting him... and the organizers will add him to the list...). I want to note that I am not a moderator and cannot edit or add changes to other people's messages... And with Firelord, you don't often interact because it was his idea from the beginning, and I don't want to make decisions without his opinion.

I accept your apology. I am sincerely glad that you are willing to admit your mistakes!
But people need to be trusted!!! And in the tournament, it is necessary to clearly define who is responsible for what.
In turn, I apologize for the tone of my messages.

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