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I disagree with this information: "If 3 players in a group play "in a circle" (A beats B, B beats C, C beats A) and they have an equal number of points, then additional arena matches will be scheduled to determine their ranking, using a random mirror system, until one player has a two-win advantage. First, the players who finished their group stage matches later will play, then the winner will play against the player who finished their matches earliest. The time for these matches will be given until November 6, 2009."
Here's why: -The tournament will be held on the Maze1 template; -RTA is a completely different game (let's also play a random RTA game with a lot of imbalance); -Many players don't even know what it is, so some players will have an advantage over others; -Since this is a significant change in the rules of this tournament, I suggest that this point is adopted only if at least 51 percent of the tournament participants agree.
Therefore, I suggest extending the group stage of the tournament by 7-10 days, starting from November 3, 2009 (there won't be that many games anyway).
There is enough time allocated for the games, and we will not be extending the deadlines. Regarding the remaining matches – it’s not fair to make everyone wait for two weeks while they play them out amongst themselves. If someone finds themselves in this situation, well, they should have won their games in the main stage.
What does "...making others wait for 2 weeks..." and "...well, you should have won the games in the main stage..." mean?!
Nobody is forcing anyone to wait! Almost all games have been played.
Please clarify in the rules what to do in case of a tie in points within a group, so that it doesn't contradict the initial tournament rules.
I'm just expressing my opinion. I strongly disagree with this change in the tournament rules. That's all I wanted to say.
P.S. I don't understand: first, registration lasts only three days, and now we're rushing again... Is our main goal to hold the tournament as quickly as possible, or is it the tournament itself?! P.S.S. And there will be no more than six remaining games. RTA (Real-Time Action) is still not suitable for this tournament. Playing on RTA is almost like playing poker: 60% skill, 40% luck.
We have allocated enough time for the games, and we will not extend the deadlines. Regarding the unfinished matches – it’s not fair to make everyone wait for two weeks while they play among themselves. Those who find themselves in this situation are responsible; they should have won their games in the main stage.
I agree with Kil, the judges really need to think this through better... Tactics are a completely different type of gameplay that requires skill... and the tournament on the league is for such players.. What is being proposed now is similar to forcing football teams, for example, to play volleyball if they have an equal number of points in the group:smile07: Why not? It's still a game with a ball...;)<
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
:eek: -since this is a significant change to the rules of this tournament, I suggest that this point is adopted only if at least 51 percent of the tournament participants agree with it. Therefore, I suggest extending the group tournament time by 7-10 days (there won't be that many games anyway), starting on November 3, 2009.
Firstly: this is in no way a change to the tournament rules, simply because it was not mentioned in the rules at all! Secondly: I don't see the point in holding a vote among the tournament participants, because it only concerns a small group of participants; the rest don't care how it all will be!
Added 17 minutes later KillAndAction
Specify in the rules what to do in case of a tie in points within a group, so that it does not contradict the original rules of the tournament. I strongly disagree with such a change to the tournament rules. Playing on an RTA map is almost like playing poker: 60% skill, 40% luck.
Thirdly: the procedure for determining the qualifying places has already been determined and is described in the tournament registration topic; I can move it to the rules as an addition. Fourthly: there have been (I repeat) no contradictory changes to the rules, so there is absolutely nothing to disagree with. Fifthly: during the tournament, and not only, I concluded that playing on large maps is also a kind of roulette, and luck plays a far from insignificant role in it. RTA is a simplified version of playing on a map; however, there is no opportunity to lose to neutrals there; and an opponent will not suddenly appear in your Castle from a portal:mad:. There is an opportunity to choose, at least, from two heroes, there is a tent with artifacts, there are troops (balanced), there is an opportunity to calmly level up your hero to level 20. In principle, there is almost everything to use your own experience to play the game! I agree that relatively unbalanced pairings may occur, but it is also determined that the second game will be played in reverse order from the first; in principle, you can even hold a draft so that players can influence which races they play, for goodness sake!
This will not just be based on equal points, but on equal points and a round-robin system, as I wrote. If the points are equal, the winner is initially determined by the results of the head-to-head match. P.S. In football, there is a penalty shootout if it is impossible to determine the winner – you could also say that this is not quite football, and luck plays a big role...
Tactics is a completely different kind of game for heroes, and you need to know how to play it... and the tournament on the league is held for such people.. What is being proposed now is similar to forcing football teams, for example, to play volleyball if they have an equal number of points in the group:smile07: Why not? It's still a game with a ball...;)
These are two absolutely different kinds of sports, even though they are both games with a ball, and by the way, the ball is different too. If we were to suggest settling things, for example, with Warcraft, I would understand your irony, but as it is, it's off the mark. In general, we can of course continue to discuss this topic, but it won't change much, and I ask you not to take this as tyranny on the part of the judges:smile41: ;) P.S., If someone has a dislike for RTA because they constantly lose there, that is still not a reason to criticize the judges' decision and even more so to accuse them of changing the rules harshly;)
This will be done not just when the scores are equal, but when the scores are equal and the game is played in a round-robin format, as I wrote. If the scores are equal, then the winner is initially determined by the results of the head-to-head match. P.S. In football, there is a penalty shootout if it is impossible to determine the winner - consider this not quite football, and luck plays a big role...
Yes, but this is part of the game, and the players prepare for it... there are players in each team who are responsible for taking them... but let's not go off-topic...
Added 6 minutes later Leolopus
Fifth: during the tournament, and not only, I concluded that playing on large maps is also a kind of gamble, and luck plays a far from insignificant role in it.
This is just your personal opinion... luck influences, but it is not a decisive factor IMHO Leolopus
RTA is a simplified version of the game on a map, although there is no opportunity to lose to neutrals there; and the opponent will not suddenly appear in the Castle from the portal:mad: There is an opportunity to choose, at least from two heroes, there is a tent with artifacts, there are troops (balanced), there is an opportunity to calmly level up your hero to level 20. In principle, there is almost everything that would allow you to use your own experience to play the game! I agree that relatively unbalanced pairs may appear, but it is also determined that the second game will be played in reverse from the first, in principle, you can even hold a draft so that the players can influence which races they play, for goodness sake!
Here I only see the love for tactics of the respected judge... why impose it on the other participants of the tournament?Leolopus
These are two completely different sports, although they are both associated with a ball, by the way, it is also different. If we suggested settling the dispute, for example, with the help of Warcraft, then your irony would be clear to me, but as it is, it's off.
This is not irony, but the first example that came to mind... your example with Warcraft is also off, because it is an RTS, a completely different type of strategy...
Please do not treat my comments as a desire to argue, but as it seems to me, you, respected judges, have not found the best way out of the situation... You should not react so sharply to criticism, because truth is born in a dispute...
"Да, человек смертен, но это было бы еще пол беды. Плохо то, что он иногда внезапно смертен, вот в чем фокус". БУЛГАКОВ М.А.
Leolopus, you're incorrigible; you keep resorting to personal attacks and offending people, and without any justification. I'm trying, for the umpteenth time, to express my consistent opinion: let's stick to the original rules of the Tournaments, instead of changing them and making things up as we go along.... After all, how many times have Tournaments been held here, and each time we keep making the same mistakes. It seems like we've already encountered all possible situations, and there's a certain amount of experience on the League where similar controversial situations are resolved simply, and you know about them, by the way....
And by the way, I have always respected and will continue to respect the people who organize Tournaments on Heroes resources for their patience and reasonableness. :smile41: But what's happening here constantly is starting to really get on my nerves. :smile32:
There are constant nitpicks, buckets of mudslinging, complete inconsistency in actions, and a lack of logic....
I didn't mean to offend anyone, but here they've started throwing hats again without understanding, in my opinion, the essence of the issue (or rather, it's just stubbornness)...
I suggest we avoid unnecessary negativity, otherwise we might end up without tournaments or participants! Personally, I can’t think of a more logical solution in this situation. I think if someone more knowledgeable suggests a better alternative, it would be foolish for the judges not to listen.
There is no dirt here. It's just that the judges decided that playing on a map created using the Maze1 template is the same as playing in an RTA (Real-Time Arena). I think this is wrong. If the judges decide, and others express their opinion, where is the dirt?
I won't say anything more about this situation. Let the respected judges decide for themselves if the opinions of others don't interest them... Although, of course, my opinion and Adv's turned out to be the only ones...
What is the rule violation? There might be a situation that wasn't initially considered or was deemed highly unlikely... Within the existing rules, it still can't be resolved, so something needs to be devised. Why an arena? Because it's quick, and the mirror feature reduces the element of luck... Kila, why are you worried? Such a situation is practically impossible in your group...
Added 3 minutes later Those who criticize haven't offered any alternatives, by the way... Playing 2 extra games on the test server is 1) very time-consuming, and 2) it will still deviate from the overall picture because all races have already been played, so that option is out (mainly because of point 1).
Why is it not possible? We already have that: Both I and Bolivar have the same number of points.
And regarding the round-robin: of course, that won't happen... I just copied the whole phrase. I wanted to find out who advances to the next round of the tournament if the players have the same number of points in the group.
And why does it take so long? At most, a week with a quick template (as a middle ground between RTA and Maze1). And the factions can be chosen randomly and provided after 1 restart. In principle, this was done in some tournaments on the League in similar situations...
An unbiased opinion: RTA in a strategic tournament is not a serious solution; as an alternative, playing a mid-tier map on templates or a balanced standard map, like Valley or Key, could work. The balance is, of course, geared towards rush strategies, but here, Cherk will help us.