Moscow qualifier.

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Registered: 3/24/2009 8:36 AM UTC

Posts: 106

9/8/2009 7:56 AM UTC #1

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Here, we discuss and sign up for the Moscow Qualifier

Qualifier organizer: SAG, ICQ 19330184
1) Venue: possibly a club near Frunzenskaya. We are still figuring it out.
2) How can I register for the qualifier?
Simply leave a request in this topic. Registration deadline is October 30.
3) Where can I stay during the tournament?
We are clarifying this. Moscow is an expensive city.
4) How many people will participate?
I think, from 12 to 20.
5) List of registered participants:
vitalic (*, preferably 2sm4d3)
Piterius (*)
SAG (*)
Yama-dharma (*)
PReDS (*)
SpiriTT (*, if the timing works out)
Stinger (*)
StickyFingaz (*, preferably 2sm4d3)
Pit for LM (*, except 8mm6)
Lanser
Markon
Keba (questionable: not enough information), 2sm4d3
* - agrees with the terms regarding templates and versions
Registered spectators:
Vigo
6) Participation fee: we are clarifying. Most likely 1000-2000 rubles.
7) Game version: TE-lite. If both players agree, they can play TE-full or SOD.
8) Template: 8mm6, but if both players agree, they can play other templates.
9) Difficulty: 160%, if both players agree, they can play 200%
10) Roads: medium (type 2)
11) System for balancing colors and cities - bidding according to a new principle - until the opponent gives up the city, then bidding for the color.
12) We will most likely refuse restarts; judges will generate and check maps for bugs.
13) Tournament time: approximately November 4-14
14) System: we are currently considering double-elimination

I ask everyone who has already registered or wants to register to express their opinion:
1) regarding templates:
a) indicate desired templates
b) indicate which ones they definitely will not play under any circumstances
2) regarding the game version:
a) indicate desired version
b) indicate which ones they definitely will not play under any circumstances
3) regarding the timing:
a) indicate desired dates
b) indicate when they definitely will not be able to play
4) other conditions under which they will not play

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Registered: 1/16/2008 4:35 PM UTC

Posts: 1,197

9/8/2009 4:12 PM UTC #2

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It is necessary to invite:
1. Yamu-Dharma, one of the most famous players in the Heroes league, and he successfully played in the Chaos league, taking 2nd place. He will be in Michurinsk, I will talk to him.
2. Andre - definitely, he should have Stinger's ICQ, he still plays, and besides, he is the last official champion of the CIS.
3. Joker and Mega Dog. They even came to visit us in Michurinsk when the Chaos league ceased to exist, they are great guys, and they are the "fathers" of the game. And it wouldn't hurt to invite Fila 123.
Then we would have a mega-champ, to everyone's envy.

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Registered: 8/19/2007 11:16 AM UTC

Posts: 876

9/8/2009 5:23 PM UTC #3

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My candidacy is uncertain – I don’t know how I’ll manage with the time commitment.

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

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Registered: 3/24/2009 8:36 AM UTC

Posts: 106

9/9/2009 5:38 AM UTC #4

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Samurai is thinking of coming if the qualifier starts on November 2nd. In principle, I think this is possible, as there is still time. And another point: if the tournament is best of two, it will take at least 4 days.

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Registered: 8/19/2007 11:16 AM UTC

Posts: 876

9/9/2009 6:28 AM UTC #5

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What is the planned system for conducting the competition?

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

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Registered: 8/19/2007 11:16 AM UTC

Posts: 876

10/12/2009 12:39 PM UTC #6

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Is our qualifier feeling down?

ну это вообще всем аргамездец!© Kash
без авто:smile20:
Человек - игрушка Бога. Этому - то и надо следовать. Надо жить играя.
Платон.

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Registered: 10/12/2009 5:34 PM UTC

Posts: 526

10/12/2009 9:03 PM UTC #7

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Here's an idea on how to combat restarts during the tournament:

A judge, who is not participating in the tournament, generates saves for most castle matchups and checks them for blocking issues and mandatory early encounters (further balancing is undesirable, in my opinion).

Consequently, the point of restarting would be eliminated because saves where everything is too difficult can simply be rejected (although this is a drawback, as skill can never be improved without occasionally getting out of a tough spot, and it often happens that when you break out of a difficult situation and find some space, you start to progress).

As an alternative, there could be several saves for each main matchup, and they would be distributed randomly.

I have some thoughts on the pros and cons of this idea (I think the cons are minor and insignificant), but I would like to hear what the community thinks.

In reply to wowa

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Registered: 6/12/2007 8:51 AM UTC

Posts: 1,832

10/12/2009 9:16 PM UTC #8

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wowa

Here's an idea on how to combat restarts during the aforementioned competition:

It's a very good idea, especially since time (the most important factor in the Qualifiers) is very valuable. Kudos to such a judge!

С истиной где-то рядом...

Лето 2010.

In reply to wowa

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Registered: 8/31/2008 12:32 PM UTC

Posts: 2,198

10/12/2009 10:40 PM UTC #9

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wowa

Here's an idea on how to combat restarts during the aforementioned scenario:

A judge, who is not participating in the tournament, generates save files for most castle pairings and checks them for blocking situations and mandatory early encounters (further balancing is undesirable, in my opinion).

Consequently, the point of restarts disappears because save files where everything is too difficult can simply be rejected (although this is a drawback, as skill can never be improved without occasionally getting out of a tough spot, and it often happens that when you break free from a difficult situation and gain some space, you start to thrive).

As an alternative, there would be several (or a pack) of save files for each main castle pairing, and they would be distributed randomly.

I have some thoughts on the pros and cons of this idea (I think the cons are minor and insignificant), but I would like to hear what the community thinks.

If you want, here you go.
The idea would be interesting, BUT the judge will simply burn out. Just for fun, try making about 10 decent generations of at least one castle pairing, say Rampart-Dungeon or Castle-Rampart, and you'll see. I've done such experiments and I'm sure it's almost impossible. At least, either this poor guy needs a lot of time and effort, or he'll do it without trying, and there will be no result. IMO, a huge drawback

In reply to Kash

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Registered: 10/12/2009 5:34 PM UTC

Posts: 526

10/12/2009 11:05 PM UTC #10

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Kash

If you really want it, here you go.
The idea would be interesting, BUT the judge will simply give up. Try, just for fun, to create about 10 decent generations of at least one pair of castles, say Rampart-Dungeon or Castle-Rampart, and you'll see. I've done such experiments and I'm sure that it's almost impossible. At least, either this poor guy needs a lot of time and effort, or he'll do it without trying, and there will be no result. IMHO, a huge drawback.

someone well-known in the Heroes community, wic, seems to have volunteered for this...

and I, in turn, am ready to barter and generate some for the St. Petersburg tournament;
and in any case, even 10 minutes for generation and an express test (and with proper skill, which is acquired with experience, IMHO, even less) is clearly preferable to hours of restarts for two players :smile01:
besides, you can start restarting matches endlessly (which, by the way, happened in Michurinsk! :smile08: )

well, for the finals, you can also fine-tune the balance more strongly, although I believe that with random generation, the most important thing is the balance of options, but at least, obviously bad layouts with hidden spots, hives, caches, and dead ends (mainly in terms of reaching them) should not be included in the final pool of saves... :)

In reply to wowa

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Registered: 8/31/2008 12:32 PM UTC

Posts: 2,198

10/12/2009 11:32 PM UTC #11

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Well, since Wic has signed up... it will definitely happen :)
Good luck!

In reply to Kash

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Registered: 3/8/2009 12:54 AM UTC

Posts: 432

10/13/2009 3:26 AM UTC #12

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Kash

If you really want it, here you go.
The idea would be interesting, BUT the judge will simply give up. Try, just for fun, to create about 10 decent generations, even just for one pair of castles, say, Rampart-Dungeon or Castle-Rampart, and you'll see. I've done such experiments and I'm sure that it's almost impossible. At the very least, either this poor guy needs a lot of time and effort, or he'll do it without trying, and there won't be any result. IMHO, a huge drawback.

Don't forget that in Moscow and St. Petersburg, a standard 8mm will most likely be used, and checking 8mm for possible rest on meeting is not at all a clear shift of the GO from the road or quick transitions to secondary opponents on cm.

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 10/12/2009 5:34 PM UTC

Posts: 526

10/13/2009 6:07 AM UTC #13

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Samurai

Don't forget that in Moscow and St. Petersburg, the standard template will likely be normal 8mm, and checking 8mm for a possible retreat during an encounter is not a clear indication of shifting the GO from the road or making quick transitions to secondary options for the opponent on the cm-scale.

not for a possible retreat, but for an inevitable one!
the problem, in my opinion, lies not only in understanding the logic of development and traffic flow (when blocks force both or even one to run along the road towards the opponent), but also in the skill of reading generations – if you practice this enough, it will become a quick process to read and correct/reject them.

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Registered: 3/24/2009 8:36 AM UTC

Posts: 106

10/13/2009 6:08 AM UTC #14

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Moreover, some players have turned restarts from a tool for balancing generator errors into a tool for exploiting freebies. For example, they might enter a "can" on the first day with 70 trolls, hoping for luck.
Regarding the variety of castle combinations: the map is randomly selected from a pre-generated pool by the judge. So, the choice will be limited to only two castles.
The system for balancing colors and cities is a new type of auction: until the opponent gives up the city, then the auction is for the color.
Version: TE or TE-lite. If both players agree, they can play SOD.
Template: 8mm6, but if both players agree, they can play with other templates.
Difficulty: 160%, if both players agree, they can play 200%.
Roads: medium (type 2). This will reduce the likelihood of restarts due to encounters.
Schedule: unfortunately, it seems we will have to play for several weekends. Approximate start of games: November 4th.
Location: possibly a club on Frunzenskaya. We are still figuring it out.
System: we are currently considering a double-elimination system.
Costs for participants: payment for game time + contributions to the prize pool (minimal). Suggest options. We don't want the financial factor to influence the composition of the participants.

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