Posts from Current analysis of offline tournaments.

This requires fresh and original ideas. But there are few of them. And attempts to invent something new out of thin air lead to offline duel tournaments... And, in my opinion, this is not just foolish, it's... a big foolishness.

When I first read this post, I wanted to write a whole page in response!!! But now I don't have the strength, or the desire... Just the main thoughts...
So, Valgala, it seems you only know how to criticize!!! Yes, I understand that you are the organizer of one of the duel tournaments, but there isn't much hassle involved!!! What does it require? Create a topic, occasionally check in, and then count the results... That's it. And offline... You try to do something, come up with something, and then you can judge!!! To do this, you need to create a map (and, to be honest, I'm tired of it for my tournament!!!), and also check a lot of saves!!!! First, you come up with something, implement it, and then I'll listen to you; you probably don't understand what it's like... I wanted to create something new, original... But with this kind of attitude, who would even want to get involved!!!
There are many people with ideas!!! I (and not just me) want to create tournaments; all that's needed is for these people to unite.

Let's not resort to personal attacks and fuel conflicts... Lu41k

But after playing a certain number of Tournaments, you can buy a lot of things for yourself.

All attempts to diversify the player's experience on the portal and stimulate interest in Tournaments run into the issue of the Creator's workload.
For example, the Grail system.

We can try to come up with something without changing the forum engine, but then it will all be based on trust (I believe in the honesty of our forum members, but unforeseen circumstances can still happen).
By the way, in the neighboring thread about the Clan War, they concluded that in order to increase interest in games within the framework of the Clan War, it is necessary to develop a clear implementation of the Clan Wars.

The goals are simply similar: to increase interest in games and stimulate players.

We need to get together, listen to ideas, discuss, and vote.
Again, without changing the engine, because as with the Grails, it will run into the Creator's workload.

And if the Creator is willing to cooperate, then there is no need to come up with anything; we can take the idea from the Grails.

Personally, I think no incentives are needed...
I know from experience that if there's no time or desire, nothing will make you play, and most importantly, you shouldn't force anyone to do anything – otherwise, it could lead to addiction...
It's great when the desire to play the game coincides with the next tournament...
Regarding the current situation with offline play, don't forget that online play is a NEW thing for us (HW)!!! and it has simply temporarily replaced offline play...
Not everyone who played offline in 2007 has left the forum – they have simply switched to online play en masse... but will it last long?
Regarding the statistics (my opinion):
HMM1 and HMM2 are classics and they consistently have a "reserve" of players... that is, even in bad times, there are potential participants who decide to revisit the past and immerse themselves in a world as close as possible to natural chess.
HMM3 is the most playable installment, and although the offline statistics are poor, people haven't left... they're all in a different discipline (online).
HMM4 – no comments.
HMM5 has both online and offline play at a decent level (and what else could you expect from the latest installment in the Heroes series, especially with the recently released expansion).

Regarding the current situation with offline play – remember that for us (HW), online play is a NEW thing!!! and it has simply temporarily replaced offline play...
Not everyone who played offline in 2007 has left the forum – they have simply switched to online play en masse... but will this last?

Yes, especially in the second game. There are already people who want to calculate the rating.:smile29:

Starhan, I completely agree with you! And I disagree with Alex_R regarding incentives! They are needed! And of course, we need to come up with something about it. It's a pity that the Grail system never materialized. So, as Starhan rightly says, we need to come up with something without changing the engine! That's what I'm actually urging everyone to do. And for this, we need proactive and effective people, we need a team! I think out of 10,000 forum members, we can gather at least a few! Although 10,000 is just a number, in reality, there are many fewer of us, but even from those who are here, we can assemble a team that cares about the fate of tournaments and wants to and can do something that will increase the popularity of tournaments (and not just offline ones). Regarding cash prizes... I personally have mixed feelings about this system... well, never mind. I'll share some of my thoughts. Yes, a sponsor would be useful, but we don't have one. We can go another way. Let's say another offline tournament starts, and at least 10 players sign up. Why wouldn't they all chip in 100 rubles each (the amount isn't so huge that it would put anyone in a difficult financial situation)? This way, the winner would receive 500 rubles, the player who came in second place would receive 300 rubles, and the player who came in third place would receive 200 rubles. It's not much, but it's nice! But again, if we use this system, we'll need treasurers who will handle the distribution of funds! And also... it's not a fact that everyone participating will contribute their 100 rubles (the amount is just an example, it could be less). And also, let's say one of the drawbacks is this: yes, we can increase the activity of our veterans, but it is unlikely that we will be able to attract new players in this way. Beginners will perfectly understand that they have no chance; they will only give away their hard-earned money without getting anything in return! So, such a system is only suitable for people who already play well and can compete with each other! But our goal is not only to motivate the veterans of the portal but also to attract new players! And this is not easy to do! I myself was once a beginner and I understand what they feel. They want to play, but they are afraid. They see the rules that they don't understand, they have many questions, many fears, and a lack of self-confidence. "I don't understand anything and I won't be able to do well. And I don't want to make a fool of myself," they decide and close the tournament topic. By the way, it would be nice to create a section for beginners, in which to describe how to apply to participate, the main provisions of offline and online tournaments, and what to do next, answers to frequently asked questions. For us, all this is easy, simple, and clear, but for them, it's a dark forest. And the questions that make us smile are very important to them! We were all beginners once; remember your first steps on the forum, your first attempts to participate in tournaments! And we need a section, not a topic, because a topic, as always, will get lost somewhere, and beginners are not yet familiar with navigation. But a section is visible right away! You can also put the rules for creating a new topic there! Maybe then there will be fewer duplicate topics! But that's another problem, and we shouldn't discuss it here. Let's try to find some incentives for all players: both veterans and beginners! After all, we can come up with something! I have some ideas, but they are still very raw and not well-thought-out.

Yeah, especially in the second game. There are even people willing to calculate the rating now.:smile29:

I understand your indignation, but our online Heroes 3 started in the spring of 2007, and only now are we seeing some results (it took almost a year).
HMM2 online started in the winter of 2008. I think everything is still ahead, but time is needed.

Lu41k, you misunderstood me... I don't think that incentives are not needed at all; I just came to this conclusion (precisely considering what you described... there is no sponsor... it is also not possible to implement an interesting engine...).
And we won't come up with anything better than 100 rubles on our own; in my opinion, this will only create additional problems, and it is not a fact that there will be more new players than veterans who will refuse to participate.;)
P.S. In general, I believe that games (at the level of a forum or resources) with money (a monetary prize) are NONSENSE.
Firstly, the pleasure is lost (those who have ever been involved in bookmaking may understand me).
Secondly, this is the strongest incentive for "dirty play," which has been, is, and will be.

Alex, I agree :) And it's simply impossible to collect the contributions, so we need to implement some other method of encouragement :)
A non-monetary one :)

P.S. In general, I believe that games (at the level of a forum or resource) with money (a monetary prize) are NONSENSE.
Firstly, the enjoyment is lost (anyone who has ever been involved in bookmaking will probably understand me).
Secondly, this is the strongest incentive for "dirty play," which has been, is, and will be.

I completely agree!
You can hold one or two tournaments, but they should never be made regular.

Alex, I agree :) And it's simply impossible to make the contributions, so we need to introduce some other method of encouragement :)
Not a monetary one :)

There is one, it's called Grails, but:

We should all get together, listen to ideas, discuss, and vote.
Again, without changing the engine, because otherwise, it will be like with Grails - it will be hindered by the Creator's workload.

The question remains open, but does the Creator even need all this?
Something tells me that he is quite happy with the current state of affairs. After all, he has been offered (by AlexeyPank and VDV_forever) various ideas for the development of HW many times, and what? Nothing! Grails have been completely forgotten (although the idea was almost 90% thought out, only the prices needed to be approved), the rating is calculated manually and exists only thanks to the enormous work of Kamikaze, the news is hardly ever updated, and I won't even mention the "HW Events" column.
But credit where credit is due, the guide to the first heroes was eventually published.

In short, think for yourselves, decide for yourselves.
Similar topics like this have arisen many, many times before! And what? Nothing....

Well, if the developers didn't implement it, then we're saying that we need to come up with something of our own that can be realistically implemented without modifying the engine and without waiting for a miracle from the developers. If nothing is done, then everything will remain at the same level!

suggest... I will put the implementation under control. Seriously, the forum is dying.
PS: And spam also does its dirty work.

Personally, I believe that no incentives are needed...

Let me tell you about myself; I think I'm similar to the average forum user. :)

When I first joined and wanted to participate in tournaments, I immediately decided to participate only in official tournaments (I was just inexperienced back then :), I thought they were different in some way :)), but in reality, the only difference is the medal, and there isn't even a medal for second or third place, and not all official tournaments award medals.

There's only a rating, just numbers, and it's calculated inconsistently.

(If it could be integrated into the forum, something like a form where the winner would fill out a report, and the loser would receive a notification to confirm it, and then the coordinator would press a button to calculate it, but that's just a dream :))

So, back to myself:

Alex R is right.

I wasn't playing Heroes 5 at all back then; I mainly played Heroes 4.

There were no official Heroes 4 tournaments, and I happily participated in unofficial Heroes 4 games.

Now I have even less time, and I have to choose tournaments for myself. I rarely pay attention to whether they are official, but sometimes I still think, "Oh, if there were an incentive, I would play." (And that's exactly why I have a large number of games where I signed up but didn't finish, because sometimes the desire just disappears :))

So, what's my point:

Yes, sometimes the desire coincides with a tournament, but that's not the whole picture.
That medal is a small thing, but it's nice.
We need to incentivize the average player

posted by Starhan
there's only a rating, just numbers, and it's calculated with interruptions.

that's not true, it's been working without interruptions for a long time.

posted by Starhan
when I first joined and wanted to participate in tournaments, I immediately decided to participate only in official tournaments (I was inexperienced at the time and thought they were different in some way).

and they really are different: at least in terms of the level of organization (tournaments from Mantikora or Sniper versus tournaments from Alan), and the participants are also different.

The current analysis of offline tournaments for the second installment of "Heroes of Might and Magic" shows that, starting from the second stage of the VK-2007 tournament, that is, a year ago, and up to the present time, there has been a high density of results. This, in turn, means that you cannot achieve a result by simply quickly traversing the map. This, in turn, means that in order to show even modest results, you need to truly play, and not just move the mouse around. Here, the factor of time comes into play. To ensure a consistently large number of participants, a "middle class" is needed – players who play for fun, not for results. Such players exist, but they face competition: other versions of "Heroes," online games, etc. And online gaming is a different thing: while you are normally completing one map offline, you can play 5-7 online games. And as soon as you turn on the computer, if you have internet access, you immediately check your instant messenger – to see who you can play with. Or the players contact you themselves... Overall, I don't see any reason for panic.

they really are different: at least in terms of organization (tournaments by Mantikora or Sniper versus tournaments by Alan), and also in terms of participants.

They just have different experience. Let Mantikora run a couple of tournaments, and he'll become an excellent organizer. Of course, 9 years is...

That's not true, it's been working without interruptions for a long time.

:) I meant AlexeyPank's departure and the period of almost a month when I was writing a program for my rating and didn't include him either (I know the topic is about offline play). And not how exactly your rating is calculated.

(tournaments from Mantikora or Sniper)

:) I hadn't even heard of those.
And I meant several unofficial tournaments in 2007 that were held at a good level.