Posts from Poll with comments: skill tree.

For those who don't like long texts, here's the gist after the asterisk.

I think AlexSpl posted somewhere here, or possibly in the main thread for the third game, about his research regarding the hero skill tree. In short: it's not random. When creating a map, a certain number from 0 to 255 is assigned, corresponding to a specific hero skill tree. That is, all the skills that appear will be based on this number. So, here's my question: should this be considered cheating, given that there is a database containing all possible hero skill trees? In principle, only the first 3-4 skills are interesting, which significantly narrows down the search. We can narrow it down further by considering the number of popular heroes, and suddenly, there isn't that much to learn. Of course, there is a program that extracts all of this from the game, but using it online would be cheating, as it retrieves the number that is unknown to the player. Formally, it's the same as peeking at what's in a specific cell in the Pandora box. The program itself only works in single-player mode, but nothing prevents you from loading a save from another copy of the game and checking the skill tree. In general, if you try hard enough, you can use this program to extract all the skill trees for specific heroes and somehow systematize them. By the way, the initial skills also follow this number and appear strictly in the sequence corresponding to the skill tree number (in principle, this is not random randomness, i.e., randomness that was created once and does not change until the end of the game. For example, any random map is random, but not non-random, because nothing changes over time during the game).

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Hero skill trees exist, they are fixed and assigned once at the beginning of the game. Should it be considered cheating to compile a database of all skill trees for all heroes and refer to it while playing online?

the program is a cheat.
knowledge is not a cheat, but if this knowledge was obtained in an "illegal" way... that's cheating:smile35:

they've already outlined the patterns, so sometimes you can identify which zone it is based on a single object – is that also considered cheating?

If I can open a save from another copy, why bother with all this tree nonsense? nwcwhatisthematrix and similar tools can help. The only option here is corrupted saves if there's no trust. And extracting the skill trees is cheating, yes.

ts, why are you so persistent?
This isn't the first time you've posted your "revelations," which are 5-7 years old.
They and these programs have long been discussed and resolved as cheats.
I think the topic should be deleted – I don't want anyone to go digging into these things looking for cheats.

Cap, vanish)

I'm talking about this
despite the fact that, for example, for Tazar, there are only 255 skill trees - it only seems like that's a deadly lot. In reality, the first few skills are usually Logistics, Earth Magic, Pathfinding, Archery, Healing, Tactics. Wisdom happens but less often. Thus, to pin down the majority of combinations for Tazar (or maybe even all of them), and then match them against the available data "by eye," as they say - that's a different matter, isn't it? Say I have 3 trees where the second skill is Tactics. Well, based on the third skill, I'll most likely determine exactly which tree it is. It's not a cheat, right?

And where is the "Cheat, but I don't care" option?

what does "yes and no" mean? So, you think it's normal to open such a program during the game and use it in single-player mode? That's absurd, it's way worse than using text-based cheats.

Added 1 minute ago

Is there an option for "Cheating, but I don't care"?

Don't you care when you're playing against someone? Or do you play Heroes rarely, so it doesn't matter?

Does it not matter when someone plays against you? Or do you play Heroes infrequently, so it doesn't matter?

This means it's a cheat, but even if someone used it, I wouldn't care.

Lider1, you misunderstood me. I clearly stated that pulling up the tree number during gameplay is cheating. However, pulling up all 255 upgrade options for a specific hero is not. It's like having a reference library; everything is explained logically in the second post regarding templates. In my opinion, it's the same case here. There's no need to re-examine the code if something has already been done. numOne, in rare cases, this can affect the game. For example, on level 3, Tazaru is offered Mysticism and Ballistics. Knowing that Earth will follow Eagle Eye, and Artillery will follow Ballistics, there's no doubt that Eagle Eye should be chosen, even though it's clearly less useful in 99% of cases than Ballistics, and preference will be given to it.

Not a cheat, but a collection of game statistics. You do use calculations for the probability of a Gorgon's gaze, right?

It's just a bit silly to jump to conclusions without understanding the situation. My previous poll went through quite a difficult process, and I received a lot of negative feedback, but thanks to it, Baratorch came up with the idea to create an updater that radically solved the problem of different versions starting from 3.23. Please show some respect!

numOne, in rare cases this can affect the game. For example, at level 3 Tazar is offered Mysticism and Ballistics. Knowing that after Eagle Eye comes Earth Magic, and after Ballistics comes Artillery, there is no doubt that you should take Eagle Eye, even though it is clearly less useful in 99% of cases than Ballistics, and preference will be given to it.

Well, that's what I'm saying. In the vast majority of cases, you'll take the more useful skills without any hints anyway. This tree can only help in cases of such forks (Eagle Eye/Mysticism for example) or when you take a weaker skill for the sake of a subsequent skill.

numOne, to be precise, there are several ancient builds that follow a rather interesting path. You might be offered Earth on level 3, and then it goes downhill. But if you choose another skill, knowing that you'll gain 7 more levels anyway, you might take Logistics, Offense, Armor, and then Earth, which can become highly specialized in just two levels. All of this is taken into account by the skill tree. That's how it works.

numOne, strictly speaking, there are several ancient builds that follow a rather interesting path. They might offer you Earth Magic at level 3, and then it goes downhill. But if you choose another skill, knowing that you'll gain another 7 levels anyway, you might choose Logistics, Offense, Armor, and then Earth Magic, which can become highly specialized in just two levels. All of this is taken into account by the skill tree. That's how it is.

I agree, that can happen. It might be time to switch to someone else :).

You can compile a database, but it's a huge undertaking. If you consider one hero up to level 8 and take just one skill tree, you'll already have 128 branches of that tree. And how many skill trees does he have in total? 255?... It's a massive amount of work. Okay, let's say someone creates databases for the main heroes. There will be a resource where you can look up the development tree at any time. And then another question arises: if there's a database where you can see everything, why waste time browsing it? You can run a program, and it will show you everything; it will be the same, but we'll save time. In the end, it will come to the point where the program won't be a cheat but rather an HD mod, saving time on browsing...