Ugh... how rude... and here you are, lecturing me about basic things... I haven't learned anything new yet, but you certainly know how to rip quotes out of context and repeat my thoughts in different words. I am merely commenting on them... yes... you want to win this argument so badly that you're clearly starting to get agitated :) why shouldn't I smile at that... I didn't attack anyone; I was just being a bit ironic, since you aren't bringing up anything particularly original yourself, and as a hereditary chemist and mathematician, you won't surprise me with any mathematical tricks... note that I didn't say mathematics isn't needed at all (I wouldn't have entered this argument if I didn't know for sure that they are equally important)... that never happened... I am simply continuing to express the thought about the importance of human communication and language... because millions of years ago, when there was no mathematics, humanity achieved its development only thanks to the emergence of communities that overcame difficulties together... by learning how to communicate...

he. attacks on an opponent signify a poverty and
exhaustion of the stock of arguments. Is that not so?

And this isn't an attack... ??? ... what is the point of bringing you arguments when you don't even fully understand the meaning of the old ones—interpreting them your own way and cutting my phrases in quotes...

to preserve spiritual foundations, it is not at all necessary to know which line to use for underlining adjectives.

You are still treating language (any language, for that matter) as a school curriculum—what nonsense... we are discussing general concepts... a massive system of communication... without which nothing in our human world would progress toward development... furthermore, there are only two numerical systems, but hundreds of languages and various scripts...

and what do you even mean by preserving spiritual foundations? knowledge of classical literature? kindness to one's neighbor? aversion to adultery and gluttony?

I mean the language of ancestors that you speak... which is thousands of years old and continues to develop to this day, as new words appear, styles of communication change, speech changes, generations pass, and this knowledge is passed from mouth to mouth (everything we know, all the experience of generations since the appearance of writing and speech) and it will always be so, while other technologies, having reached their maximum peak, will cease to exist... damn... it's as if you don't understand this yourself... what will you teach your children first... mathematics? Will you not wait for their first word? Will you remain indifferent to that event? Is that not what is important?[/B][/SIZE]

well, that's just sci-fi nonsense. it will be harder to get a job as a loader, but mystical machines themselves are capable of nothing. they need maintenance, they cannot perform complex work, etc., and so on.

The first industrial revolution was back in the 18th century... then thousands of people were replaced by machines and those who led uprisings were exterminated... over the last hundred years, many things have been mechanized and this process continues steadily, and even every year hundreds of people lose their jobs... that is all I meant... if I wanted to bring up sci-fi nonsense, I would cite some book written 60 years ago that unfortunately described mechanisms that have become commonplace today (and there are plenty of such books)...

and if you compare the demand for accountants, economists, programmers, and other bureaucrats with the demand for Russian language teachers, you might be surprised by the total dominance of the former.
investments, loans, trading, turnover, contracts, business in general—that is mathematics. so...

I've never made such a comparison, let alone been surprised... it's just that the primary professions now are those related to mathematics and performing monotonous routine calculation work... there are no creative principles for these robot-like professions... you're talking about the Russian language again... but how in demand are foreign language specialists now... they are snapped up instantly for university preparation... and finding a decent job knowing only one native language is practically impossible... I am studying Latin, for example...
no... business, yes—mathematics... but the foundations of business are contracts and negotiations, and then, if they have a successful outcome, come investments, etc.

why are you shouting? relying on the volume of your statements? and sudoku forces one to perform calculations. no one said it was very difficult. so what? but it specifically strains spatial thinking.

I never shout—I am a very calm person by nature... exclamation marks don't just signify a shout, but an emphasis of thought on the phrase... !!!
The best thing I know for developing spatial thinking is origami lessons, if you like... creativity also develops it...

I never thought this would be a mystery to a medal winner. in your opinion, the brain is a homogeneous puddle of gray matter? then you'd better read a middle school biology textbook. mathematics was created) and books, "they were always there"? or did they arise from thin air? and speech too? or maybe the gods sent them from heaven? everything except natural sciences was created artificially in this world, baby. and to organize natural principles and patterns for oneself, mathematics was created—as a Rampart of rationalism. and to organize the sounds produced by the larynx and oral cavity, to use them to designate phenomena and objects, speech was created.

Among the things you say, there are no mysteries for me... speech is sounds that humanity learned to use for communication... so they didn't come from thin air...
I am not your "baby," you could get punched in the eye for that... it's impolite of you in an argument...
sigh... please build me a model of a world where there are no languages, but there is mathematics... would that even be life... on the contrary, one can imagine that...
The first book in school will still be the primer...

essays and phrases become more complex not at all from mindless drilling of commas and studying complex sentence types. they become more complex over time, mainly thanks to simple literature. and also they depend on one's worldview and state of mind at the current moment of life. spelling, punctuation—merely a toolkit. just as buying a pruning saw doesn't make you a Moldovan foreman. I finished school without any medals and with a C in chemistry. but I was always quick-witted. I won Olympiads. perhaps my mind is from my father; he is a gold medalist. and so what? anyone could get a medal by cramming and "grinding" their studies. a crude word, but very fitting for this context. and why? I look at my father, and I see—the medal gave him nothing. if I talk to him about something philosophical, or reason about something, he cannot sustain the conversation. because his mind is unsophisticated, and his gaze is sergeant-straight. and he certainly doesn't earn millions.

Here we go again... we are not talking about spelling right now, but about language, and you brought up the school curriculum yourself... I never bothered myself with studying... a medal is a useless thing that will never be needed... and why such disrespect toward your father... you are far from being a philosopher... and happiness isn't in millions...

how do the Japanese program robots? how do programmers write programs? everything here is built on mathematics.

Oh... did I deny that... here we go again... I write and program normally, but I don't believe that in my life this is more important than communication with loved ones and cultural heritage—it is only a way to earn money... as if humanity couldn't survive without robots... all these numerous technologies only ruin the environment... Moscow—my hometown—is becoming more and more enclosed by a gray shield of chemicals every year... driving out of town, one can see the terrifying dome of the triumph of mechanical engineering...

parrying is simple as pie... and poetry and prose, yes, are limited only by the poverty of language. a simplest example—the painstaking search for the right word/rhyme. language is rich, but not omnipotent.

:smile07: you wrote something stupid, and I merely commented on it... as for the painstaking search... that can also be said about solving certain mathematical problems and calculations...

far from limitless. I repeat, everything is limited only by the poverty of language. there are a certain number of words in it. and they can be used in different ways. but they are not an infinite set.
and I will take the advice not to become a robot when I write my new story,
thanks.

It's not about an infinite set... nothing in the universe possesses this quality—everything is finite... it's stupid to consider language optional because of this fact... numbers also possess infinity, and periodicity exists only in words... keep writing... although if a person struggles to find a rhyme, then they shouldn't write at all, as the rhyme should be born naturally without mechanical selection...

logic..
what does it matter that you copied an article from Wikipedia?
as well as someone else's statements?
recently you spoke of the boundlessness of perceptions. meaning the definition should not exhaust your idea? logic is rationalism. rationalism is mathematics. this is an axiom. and people who know a language but stutter and painfully search for words in conversation—is that not the triumph of irrationality? they cannot construct a sentence, although they know many words.

This isn't an article, it's a definition... where everything is clearly written... and my quotes are favorites and on topic... you wanted a lively argument yourself... but I think you don't analyze them at all... what a waste... terrible is the arguer who cannot imagine themselves on the other side of the barricades... and a smart person will never reproach another for citing sources...
Unlike you, I cannot give definitions out of thin air when it contradicts the truth... everyone has their own perceptions... and logic too... I gave you logic from the perspective of language... rationalism is, I believe, the science of logical reasoning, right? that's what you meant in this sense... but reasonings can be not only mathematical, but also linguistic or even combined... well, try to prove a theorem without saying a word... people suffering from such diseases are beyond mockery... it's damage to the nervous system; they know sign languages... blind people have writing—because no human being can live in total absence of communication in any form...

...mathematics is not exhausted by formulas at all. for the same reason I draw your attention to the fact that this is, first and foremost, rationalism, and you, instead of putting smileys and haphazardly hyperbolizing, would be better off bringing real arguments in your favor. my "rationalism" is expressed in the fact that I engage in arts, adore Eastern culture, master the katana and staff—that is, everything written in the profile

If you don't see real arguments, it's only because you don't want to see anything but yourself and your ideas... I smiled a couple of times pointing out contradictions in your reasonings, and you flared up like fire immediately... not very samurai-like, those who keep their thoughts cold and calm... commenting slightly on your statements as in any ordinary discussion, I move to reasoning... you haven't even brought real arguments in your favor yet... "mastering the katana and staff"—I feel that when you master them, I will challenge you to a duel... I practiced with a pole for 5 years; my father taught nunchaku... it would also be interesting to see your katana...

P.S. I think out of the two of us, only I so far accept that both sciences are as important in our time as air... but you will never convince me of the exclusive superiority of mathematics, treating language as secondary to human development, especially with such meager examples... well, your arguments just don't impress me...