Nargott
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Games against the Destroyer (demon army raid) have revealed a weak point in balance — namely, vulnerability to Chaos, which was previously underestimated.
Due to this, changes will be made in the near future in two directions:
1) the physical stats of units will generally be increased by 5% (i.e., the effectiveness of buffs and debuffs will increase by 5%, and the effectiveness of direct damage spells will decrease by 5%)
2) overly vulnerable units (such as all Angels and Devils) will receive the ability "Magic Resistance" (25% reduction in magic damage)
At the same time, all Forest Dragons will in the future receive "Magic Protection" (50% reduction in magic damage), and Dark Dragons (Gray and Red) will receive "Magic Immunity" (75% reduction in magic damage).
Also, Balrogs and Fiends will be significantly weakened in physical stats, while the Fiends' ability — Killing Blade — will be strengthened from 8 to 10 damage points. These changes are due to a reassessment of the strength of their striking abilities (the Slashing Sword is very powerful and deals more damage than a physical attack).
The Resurrection of Cherubim will also be strengthened from 30-75 to 60-105 points (for 1-2 Cherubim).
The entire set of changes is aimed at leveling the difficult matchup for the Paladin against the Destroyer (currently, Chaos completely outplays healing).
Added after 14 hours 36 minutes
The mod has been updated (now in the thread header).
I slightly tweaked the stats of some units and fixed a bug with Horned Demons (they had an incorrect 15 initiative — such a value is generally impossible for demons).
Granted all Angels and Devils Magic Resistance (25% protection against magic damage).
Removed immunity to Berserk from all Knights (since it's not needed there — horses require a long charge for good damage, and with Berserk they cover a short distance).
I also strengthened the Retaliation of White Griffins from double to triple damage, so as not to buff their stats.
Simply doubling damage doesn't seem particularly severe if the unit is already battered after the first two attacks, given the Griffins' initially low damage.
The ability should work similarly to prohibiting focus on the unit, even if it is already heavily damaged.
The White Griffin, unlike the Man-at-Arms, should be able to nimbly plug gaps in the defense without fearing being quickly overwhelmed by superior physical damage (due to strong retaliations).
The Man-at-Arms, on the other hand, can fight back to some extent, but its main function is to intercept attacks and reduce damage; it has a wider area of static influence (thanks to Intercept). Consequently, its primary mode of operation is defense, not mobile cover.
Regarding the balance of Chaos — I played some more and realized that Chaos itself is fine; only the enormous vulnerabilities to it of certain units (Angels, Devils) were not fine.
Because a Chaos Destroyer finds it just as difficult to play against a Dark Fiend as a Paladin finds it easy to play against a Fiend.
This is because units with strong attacks (like those of demons) are highly vulnerable to Berserk and Domination, and in this regard, the Fiend is unmatched (and under such conditions, Darkness can kill even faster than Chaos).
At the same time, the Paladin, thanks to defense and healing, can out-heal physical damage, but Chaos makes dense defensive formations ineffective — it is not reduced by defense, is not blocked by units, and can therefore deal damage to a critical spot too quickly.
In short, there are inherently unfavorable opponents that require adaptation and a change in playstyle (which is why the comrade who claimed that Paladin gameplay is monotonous is wrong — against different opponents, the Paladin is simply forced to play in different styles; the classic defensive style falls apart against Chaos). The goal of game balance in such a case is not to "level the chances," but to provide the player with counter-tools so that they can put up a fight even in the worst conditions. In this case, the Paladin has such a tool — it is the infinite Regeneration of Cherubim (in combination with infinite healing from Paladins), but for it to work, the Cherub must not fall from a single cast (which is why a small magic defense is being introduced).
A similar situation exists for the Destroyer. Against the Fiend, it finds itself in a situation where, with one cast, the Dark Fiend can take down both stacks at once, and it "can repeat" (and similar things are also done by Alt Succubi — Lilim). Therefore, proper positioning and early retreat into defense are extremely important here (first and foremost, against one's own troops). But even here, there is an unexpected trump card: the Devils with their infinite summoning of Balrogs, which now works on enemy demon corpses as well, not just one's own. Thus, the Destroyer only needs the Devil to survive until Chaos completely destroys some units, after which it can start churning out Balrogs non-stop.
Perfect balance (with completely equal chances) is only possible when the player has the ability to independently assemble their troops, heroes, and artifacts — that is, to prepare for an upcoming battle against a specific opponent. Because there are always things that are stronger against some things and weaker against others. In a duel format, an attempt to build such balance would inevitably lead to a mishmash. After all, to effectively fight Chaos, you need units with good damage; to effectively fight Darkness, you need units with good defense. Having units of all orientations in each army provides flexibility but completely strips away style. A Paladin whose troops could deal damage quickly would certainly have good chances against Chaos, but only the name would remain of the Paladin's style. In this regard, Regeneration is a much better solution — it doesn't completely eliminate the problems against Chaos, but it fits the style.
In short, the Regeneration of Cherubim and the infinite summoning of Balrogs, which in this case also works on enemy demonic units, is indeed a great find. When you create truly powerful, extraordinary abilities, they invariably find their use, sometimes even in the most difficult matchups. Now it seems obvious that Regeneration is a natural development of the Archangel's essence, as it allows restoring very, very much damage in the right hands. And once upon a time, the ability seemed like a curiosity. It seemed, why duplicate the Hydra? But the Hydra isn't about recovery; the Hydra's task is to absorb a lot of damage, including through regeneration. The Hydra takes a long time to kill and a long time to recover. The Cherub, on the other hand, is more vulnerable and often needs to retreat to heal its wounds in a calm environment, but it also recovers much faster (thanks to its low health).
Regarding the infinite summoning of Balrogs, it also now seems strange why such an idea didn't come to mind before? An ability that cannot be used every turn, requires sacrificing one of your own units, and is also one-time, devoid of any potential — why was it originally in such a reduced form? It would seem to be an imba — to have the ability to fill the entire battlefield with Balrogs. But to achieve this, the Devil must survive while other units die, which means the Devil cannot afford to jump into the open meat grinder, where it would, of course, quickly become the first candidate for slaughter. And if it stays behind, other units die faster, lacking proper support, meaning higher allied losses, and it's not a fact that even several newly created Balrog units will manage to turn the tide of battle in their favor (by the time the first corpses appear, the battle may already be effectively lost, with a bunch of useless, half-dead units). So it turns out that the Devil, ideally, must be able to both survive and deal its own damage, which makes its use complex and tactically interesting.
Previously, I was against reusable abilities, preferring to simply make abilities more powerful while maintaining their one-time use. This approach allows preserving good physical stats for units while getting strong (when triggered) abilities at a minimal cost. And indeed, this approach works much better than weak reusable abilities, which can formally be used throughout the entire battle, but are of little real use and provide little tactical benefit. However, combining both approaches brings much more interest than either one alone. Strong and reusable abilities (simultaneously) are certainly worth paying for, sometimes at a high cost. It matters less that a unit is weaker in a direct exchange compared to what it is fundamentally capable of showing on the battlefield. Who cares that the same Fiends are mediocre in melee combat (but are dangerous due to Lethal Strike)? If this unit creates a huge presence on the battlefield with its two mass debuffs, which it can refresh indefinitely?
Added after 22 hours 42 minutes
The next change will affect the higher-level spells of the Darkness magic school.
The higher-level Darkness spells (Domination, Berserk) are most dangerous against aggressive factions with high damage, as well as against heroes with high attack and low defense.
At the same time, heroes like Nimus have enough mana to cast a couple of Berserks and a Domination (and Alt Succubi — Lilim — provide another Domination).
Nimus also has low Sorcery, which, however, is of no consequence for Berserk and is not very critical for Domination (it only affects duration).
That is, it turns out that Nimus has an ultimate weapon against a number of opponents, without significant drawbacks.
This state of affairs needs to be corrected.
Berserk (10 mana)
- Unit deals 100% damage for 1 turn (was)
- Unit deals (10% x SP) damage for 1 turn (will be)
That is, Berserk is weakened this way (except for very high Sorcery > 9). Overall, this nerf is not very significant, as besides the attack, the unit loses its turn and probably takes retaliation damage (which is not affected by any penalties). But for those situations where the main danger of Berserk is direct damage (against particularly vulnerable units), this change significantly improves the picture.
Specifically, Nimus will cast Berserk not with 100% direct damage, but with only 30% (however, the retaliation remains just as full).
Domination (15 mana)
- Unit receives 50% initiative and comes under control for (SP + 0/1/2/3) x 0.25 rounds (was)
- Unit receives (10% x SP) initiative and comes under control for 0.5/1/1.5/2 rounds (will be)
Domination is thus not so much nerfed as it becomes softer (with low Sorcery) and harsher with high Sorcery (however, with high Sorcery, there will likely not be much mana).
Specifically, Nimus will cast Domination with 30% initiative (instead of 50%), but for 2 rounds (instead of 1.5). This means his opponents will have more time to react to such a drastic change in the situation.
I tried playing against Nimus (Fiend) with the updated spells as Deleb (Destroyer); the matchup noticeably improved.
Added after 15 hours 58 minutes
In the next update, other spells will also be reworked:
1) Distraction and Avoidance:
- Avoidance will be strengthened from 60% protection to 67% protection (reduces ranged damage by 3 times) for 2/4/6/8 rounds
- Distraction will be weakened from 60% to 50% (reduces the number of active creatures by 2 times, rounding down) for 1/2/3/4 rounds
Reason — targeted Distraction was almost always more attractive than Avoidance because it disabled one shooter against all possible targets, rather than protecting only one target from shooters.
Therefore, when only one vulnerable target needs protection, Avoidance should work much more effectively (and reduce damage more).
The general Distraction from Fiends will also be weakened: from 60% to 50% for 2 rounds.
2) Play based on buffs and debuffs will also be strengthened: Skin, Might, Haste, and Feeble from SP+4 to SP+5 bonus, and Slow will be strengthened from 60% to 67% initiative reduction (3 times).
Skin will also be strengthened for Inquisitors from +8 to +10 for 2 rounds (but their own defense will be reduced by 2).
Added after 17 hours 17 minutes
Also planned is a fundamental change to the Incorporeal ability: from a 50% chance of a miss to 67%, with exactly every third hit missing, without any randomness.
Technically, it's also possible to do the opposite — a 33% miss chance with a miss every third hit — but I dismissed this option immediately, as it would weaken the Phantom too much (which I want to make stronger, on the contrary).
Due to this, changes will be made in the near future in two directions:
1) the physical stats of units will generally be increased by 5% (i.e., the effectiveness of buffs and debuffs will increase by 5%, and the effectiveness of direct damage spells will decrease by 5%)
2) overly vulnerable units (such as all Angels and Devils) will receive the ability "Magic Resistance" (25% reduction in magic damage)
At the same time, all Forest Dragons will in the future receive "Magic Protection" (50% reduction in magic damage), and Dark Dragons (Gray and Red) will receive "Magic Immunity" (75% reduction in magic damage).
Also, Balrogs and Fiends will be significantly weakened in physical stats, while the Fiends' ability — Killing Blade — will be strengthened from 8 to 10 damage points. These changes are due to a reassessment of the strength of their striking abilities (the Slashing Sword is very powerful and deals more damage than a physical attack).
The Resurrection of Cherubim will also be strengthened from 30-75 to 60-105 points (for 1-2 Cherubim).
The entire set of changes is aimed at leveling the difficult matchup for the Paladin against the Destroyer (currently, Chaos completely outplays healing).
Added after 14 hours 36 minutes
Human Units
Demon Units
The mod has been updated (now in the thread header).
I slightly tweaked the stats of some units and fixed a bug with Horned Demons (they had an incorrect 15 initiative — such a value is generally impossible for demons).
Granted all Angels and Devils Magic Resistance (25% protection against magic damage).
Removed immunity to Berserk from all Knights (since it's not needed there — horses require a long charge for good damage, and with Berserk they cover a short distance).
I also strengthened the Retaliation of White Griffins from double to triple damage, so as not to buff their stats.
Simply doubling damage doesn't seem particularly severe if the unit is already battered after the first two attacks, given the Griffins' initially low damage.
The ability should work similarly to prohibiting focus on the unit, even if it is already heavily damaged.
The White Griffin, unlike the Man-at-Arms, should be able to nimbly plug gaps in the defense without fearing being quickly overwhelmed by superior physical damage (due to strong retaliations).
The Man-at-Arms, on the other hand, can fight back to some extent, but its main function is to intercept attacks and reduce damage; it has a wider area of static influence (thanks to Intercept). Consequently, its primary mode of operation is defense, not mobile cover.
Regarding the balance of Chaos — I played some more and realized that Chaos itself is fine; only the enormous vulnerabilities to it of certain units (Angels, Devils) were not fine.
Because a Chaos Destroyer finds it just as difficult to play against a Dark Fiend as a Paladin finds it easy to play against a Fiend.
This is because units with strong attacks (like those of demons) are highly vulnerable to Berserk and Domination, and in this regard, the Fiend is unmatched (and under such conditions, Darkness can kill even faster than Chaos).
At the same time, the Paladin, thanks to defense and healing, can out-heal physical damage, but Chaos makes dense defensive formations ineffective — it is not reduced by defense, is not blocked by units, and can therefore deal damage to a critical spot too quickly.
In short, there are inherently unfavorable opponents that require adaptation and a change in playstyle (which is why the comrade who claimed that Paladin gameplay is monotonous is wrong — against different opponents, the Paladin is simply forced to play in different styles; the classic defensive style falls apart against Chaos). The goal of game balance in such a case is not to "level the chances," but to provide the player with counter-tools so that they can put up a fight even in the worst conditions. In this case, the Paladin has such a tool — it is the infinite Regeneration of Cherubim (in combination with infinite healing from Paladins), but for it to work, the Cherub must not fall from a single cast (which is why a small magic defense is being introduced).
A similar situation exists for the Destroyer. Against the Fiend, it finds itself in a situation where, with one cast, the Dark Fiend can take down both stacks at once, and it "can repeat" (and similar things are also done by Alt Succubi — Lilim). Therefore, proper positioning and early retreat into defense are extremely important here (first and foremost, against one's own troops). But even here, there is an unexpected trump card: the Devils with their infinite summoning of Balrogs, which now works on enemy demon corpses as well, not just one's own. Thus, the Destroyer only needs the Devil to survive until Chaos completely destroys some units, after which it can start churning out Balrogs non-stop.
Perfect balance (with completely equal chances) is only possible when the player has the ability to independently assemble their troops, heroes, and artifacts — that is, to prepare for an upcoming battle against a specific opponent. Because there are always things that are stronger against some things and weaker against others. In a duel format, an attempt to build such balance would inevitably lead to a mishmash. After all, to effectively fight Chaos, you need units with good damage; to effectively fight Darkness, you need units with good defense. Having units of all orientations in each army provides flexibility but completely strips away style. A Paladin whose troops could deal damage quickly would certainly have good chances against Chaos, but only the name would remain of the Paladin's style. In this regard, Regeneration is a much better solution — it doesn't completely eliminate the problems against Chaos, but it fits the style.
In short, the Regeneration of Cherubim and the infinite summoning of Balrogs, which in this case also works on enemy demonic units, is indeed a great find. When you create truly powerful, extraordinary abilities, they invariably find their use, sometimes even in the most difficult matchups. Now it seems obvious that Regeneration is a natural development of the Archangel's essence, as it allows restoring very, very much damage in the right hands. And once upon a time, the ability seemed like a curiosity. It seemed, why duplicate the Hydra? But the Hydra isn't about recovery; the Hydra's task is to absorb a lot of damage, including through regeneration. The Hydra takes a long time to kill and a long time to recover. The Cherub, on the other hand, is more vulnerable and often needs to retreat to heal its wounds in a calm environment, but it also recovers much faster (thanks to its low health).
Regarding the infinite summoning of Balrogs, it also now seems strange why such an idea didn't come to mind before? An ability that cannot be used every turn, requires sacrificing one of your own units, and is also one-time, devoid of any potential — why was it originally in such a reduced form? It would seem to be an imba — to have the ability to fill the entire battlefield with Balrogs. But to achieve this, the Devil must survive while other units die, which means the Devil cannot afford to jump into the open meat grinder, where it would, of course, quickly become the first candidate for slaughter. And if it stays behind, other units die faster, lacking proper support, meaning higher allied losses, and it's not a fact that even several newly created Balrog units will manage to turn the tide of battle in their favor (by the time the first corpses appear, the battle may already be effectively lost, with a bunch of useless, half-dead units). So it turns out that the Devil, ideally, must be able to both survive and deal its own damage, which makes its use complex and tactically interesting.
Previously, I was against reusable abilities, preferring to simply make abilities more powerful while maintaining their one-time use. This approach allows preserving good physical stats for units while getting strong (when triggered) abilities at a minimal cost. And indeed, this approach works much better than weak reusable abilities, which can formally be used throughout the entire battle, but are of little real use and provide little tactical benefit. However, combining both approaches brings much more interest than either one alone. Strong and reusable abilities (simultaneously) are certainly worth paying for, sometimes at a high cost. It matters less that a unit is weaker in a direct exchange compared to what it is fundamentally capable of showing on the battlefield. Who cares that the same Fiends are mediocre in melee combat (but are dangerous due to Lethal Strike)? If this unit creates a huge presence on the battlefield with its two mass debuffs, which it can refresh indefinitely?
Added after 22 hours 42 minutes
The next change will affect the higher-level spells of the Darkness magic school.
The higher-level Darkness spells (Domination, Berserk) are most dangerous against aggressive factions with high damage, as well as against heroes with high attack and low defense.
At the same time, heroes like Nimus have enough mana to cast a couple of Berserks and a Domination (and Alt Succubi — Lilim — provide another Domination).
Nimus also has low Sorcery, which, however, is of no consequence for Berserk and is not very critical for Domination (it only affects duration).
That is, it turns out that Nimus has an ultimate weapon against a number of opponents, without significant drawbacks.
This state of affairs needs to be corrected.
Berserk (10 mana)
- Unit deals 100% damage for 1 turn (was)
- Unit deals (10% x SP) damage for 1 turn (will be)
That is, Berserk is weakened this way (except for very high Sorcery > 9). Overall, this nerf is not very significant, as besides the attack, the unit loses its turn and probably takes retaliation damage (which is not affected by any penalties). But for those situations where the main danger of Berserk is direct damage (against particularly vulnerable units), this change significantly improves the picture.
Specifically, Nimus will cast Berserk not with 100% direct damage, but with only 30% (however, the retaliation remains just as full).
Domination (15 mana)
- Unit receives 50% initiative and comes under control for (SP + 0/1/2/3) x 0.25 rounds (was)
- Unit receives (10% x SP) initiative and comes under control for 0.5/1/1.5/2 rounds (will be)
Domination is thus not so much nerfed as it becomes softer (with low Sorcery) and harsher with high Sorcery (however, with high Sorcery, there will likely not be much mana).
Specifically, Nimus will cast Domination with 30% initiative (instead of 50%), but for 2 rounds (instead of 1.5). This means his opponents will have more time to react to such a drastic change in the situation.
I tried playing against Nimus (Fiend) with the updated spells as Deleb (Destroyer); the matchup noticeably improved.
Added after 15 hours 58 minutes
In the next update, other spells will also be reworked:
1) Distraction and Avoidance:
- Avoidance will be strengthened from 60% protection to 67% protection (reduces ranged damage by 3 times) for 2/4/6/8 rounds
- Distraction will be weakened from 60% to 50% (reduces the number of active creatures by 2 times, rounding down) for 1/2/3/4 rounds
Reason — targeted Distraction was almost always more attractive than Avoidance because it disabled one shooter against all possible targets, rather than protecting only one target from shooters.
Therefore, when only one vulnerable target needs protection, Avoidance should work much more effectively (and reduce damage more).
The general Distraction from Fiends will also be weakened: from 60% to 50% for 2 rounds.
2) Play based on buffs and debuffs will also be strengthened: Skin, Might, Haste, and Feeble from SP+4 to SP+5 bonus, and Slow will be strengthened from 60% to 67% initiative reduction (3 times).
Skin will also be strengthened for Inquisitors from +8 to +10 for 2 rounds (but their own defense will be reduced by 2).
Added after 17 hours 17 minutes
Also planned is a fundamental change to the Incorporeal ability: from a 50% chance of a miss to 67%, with exactly every third hit missing, without any randomness.
Technically, it's also possible to do the opposite — a 33% miss chance with a miss every third hit — but I dismissed this option immediately, as it would weaken the Phantom too much (which I want to make stronger, on the contrary).