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Posts from Final vote for the location of the CIS-2017 tournament.
What surprises me is something else. Every year, we managed without voting. CIS tournaments were held in St. Petersburg, Volgograd, Minsk, Odessa, Yekaterinburg, Michurinsk, and Kyiv. There were never any complaints, like "it's inconvenient for me," or "it's too far." Those who wanted to come, came. But this year, we gave the people a choice, and that's when it all started... Democracy is evil in such matters, of course. I hope that next year we can do without this.
Added 1 minute ago Al Feyn
The only thing I regret is the repetition of the location.
I'll correct you here. In 2010, the contenders were Kyiv and Michurinsk. (At the same time, Nagan openly "sabotaged" Michurinsk's "application"...) In 2013, the options were Odessa or Minsk. They decided on Odessa without any fuss, and Minsk was chosen for 2014. In 2015, there was a discussion that went without any major conflict. The candidates were St. Petersburg and Volgograd. St. Petersburg didn't put in much effort, and Volgograd was chosen. And this year, it could have been done without any fuss. But Vigo, with his loyal supporters, felt the need to stir things up.
Yura, the difference is significant. The CIS project is an independent entity, a self-organizing system. As an experienced manager with a higher education in management, I'm telling you – neither you, nor I, nor anyone else can dictate how, what, and where things happen. Except for the target audience, which is essentially what the CIS project is based on. And the target audience isn't just those who might come and might play... The target audience is those who actually travel and actually play. And the answer from this audience is in the voting.
And what did I say? Exactly the same:
"The history of past trips is only interesting in terms of the probability of attending."
It's just that this probability isn't proportional to the number of CIS events previously attended. For example, Bishop, although he hasn't attended before, will come to Korolev and will even seriously compete for the title. And, for example, Van wrote that there's a 90% chance he won't come, but he added more points for Volgograd.
The second point is that regular CIS attendees will come to both Volgograd and Korolev (and even to Yekaterinburg). Maybe not all of them, but many. So, their vote reflects their desire, but not necessarily their intention.
And the third point is that Nagan correctly pointed out the issue of affluent poker players, and I fully agree. As the tournament organizer, I would prefer a couple of new players who registered as players, rather than a couple of experienced spectators.
In other words, this poll is just an approximate guideline, and it's difficult to extract real attendance figures from it.
Based on both the poll and the discussions, I don't get the feeling that more people will come to Volgograd than to Korolev. Yes, the quorum in Volgograd is more predictable in terms of quantity, but there's more variance in the case of Korolev. But the expected value for Korolev is probably higher.
But the expected value for Korolev is probably higher.
Yura, stop. As long as Vigo is mentioned in Korolev's proposal, the expected value (based on statistics, nothing more) for this proposal is only related to a money grab. I would understand and support your enthusiasm for Ekb. Because there is a real proposal there. And a real organizer with a good head on their shoulders. And who managed to secure such favorable conditions and prices for the venue that we can only dream of. But the Ekb proposal lost in the competitive bidding. You can argue for a long time about the systems for calculating "qualified voters" (and according to any of them, Volgograd is in the lead after the first round of voting, including the one proposed by Asmo)... And certain Vigo supporters and others will continue to complain for some time... But the fact remains: Volgograd won the vote. In two rounds of voting. But it's too early to congratulate them. Because the main work for the organizer is just beginning now. Those who got involved in this for personal reasons (like Bert or Mee with Asmo, and in the case of the latter, it's still unclear why I offended them so much; Bert is simply attacking Alexey for certain reasons) – God is their judge, as they say...
Vatya
9 years ago
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Let's count it the other way around. How many people who voted for Volgograd will come to Korolev? Almost everyone!!! And how many from Korolev will go to Volgograd? Almost nobody!!!
Let's try counting it the other way around. How many people who voted for Volgograd will come to Korolev? Almost everyone!!! And how many from Korolev will go to Volgograd? Almost nobody!!!
First, calculate how many people who voted for Korolev will go anywhere at all. Look, Yura himself says he won't go. ;)
The second point is that regular attendees from the CIS countries will come to both Volgograd and Korolev (and even to Yekaterinburg). Perhaps not all of them, but many. So, their vote reflects their desire, but not their intention.
Vatya
Let's calculate it the other way around. How many people who voted for Volgograd will come to Korolev? Almost all of them!!! And how many from Korolev will come to Volgograd? Almost none!!!
If we reason this way, then the opinion of those who "will only come here" is more important than the opinion of those who "will come anywhere."
Let's try counting backward. How many people who voted for Volgograd will come to Korolev? Almost everyone!!! And how many from Korolev will go to Volgograd? Almost nobody!!!
This is written by a user who also voted for the option "I'm not going to the CIS event"...
Writes a character who also voted for the option "I won't attend the CIS event"...
I don't understand what you didn't like about this poll – it seems very fair to me (unlike many others, which overwhelmingly supported one option just to dismiss the opposing one).
I don't understand what you didn't like about this vote – it seems to me that it's as fair as possible (unlike many others, which completely favored one option just to eliminate the opposing one).
You mean yourself, right? People who genuinely don't care don't care about the weighting of their votes.
You mean yourself too, right? People who genuinely don't care don't bother with splitting their votes.
If my goal was to eliminate someone, there would be +6 votes for the king on the last day, not +6 votes for Yekaterinburg on the first or second day. P.S. It feels like the astrologers have declared a week of fools.
If you reason like that, then the opinion of those who say "I'll only come here" is more important than those who say "I'll go anywhere."
You and Merlin just did that. The opinion of someone who says "I'll only come here" is more important than those who say "I'll go anywhere."
Initially, the task was to determine the largest quorum. You can make it complicated with several rounds, which is what people are currently puzzled about. Or, you could have conducted a normal vote with multiple choices and the question "Where can you go?"
With your system, if there are 12 people, they can come to points A, B, C, and they voted that way, i.e., points A, B, C will gather a quorum of 12 people. And there are 5 people who can only go to point D. You and Merlin rigged the system so that point D would win.
That's what we're seeing now in the voting results. If there was a normal multiple-choice option, instead of the rigged "multiple-choice" you created, a person could have indicated that they could go to Yekaterinburg and Korolev. But now, their vote is devalued compared to someone who can only go to Volgograd. So, in your system, "the opinion of those who say 'I'll only come here' is more important than those who say 'I'll go anywhere.'"
Well, that's all just a side note; I wasn't planning on going to Korolev after Vigo announced the prices. I only voted to support this circus.
Let me remind you that the CIS Championship was initiated by Nagana. The first one was held in 2010.
This point REQUIRES clarification.
Was Kyiv the location in 2010? Where was the esteemed Merlin, and in the final, in a beautiful match, Bayazet won against Roland? Does that mean that the Krasnodar events, which are written about and reminisced about on this resource, were championships, but not CIS championships, and therefore don't count? And Chaos and Andrey have never been official Heroes champions with prize money significantly higher than in the other championships with the proud CIS suffix? Ah, so as I suspected, I only have 2 points, and Bishop has only 1 (:eek:), and even if Chaos or Andrey voted here, they would also have only a few points against 4 for some people who practice Heroic-poker alcoholism year after year?
It's a fair result! As I suspected, the vote counting system is the most honest and righteous! It's possible that Vlg (magically transformed from Sochi) and Ekb won in a similar magical way, but no one bothered to check those very magical calculations based on even more magical premises?
If my goal was to eliminate someone, there would be +6 votes for the King on the last day, not +6 votes for Yekaterinburg on the first or second day. P.S. It seems like the astrologers have declared a week of fools.
And where was the maximum increase in votes on the last day? ;) P.S. About the week of fools – do we have any birthdays this week? :D
Wowa, you deserve a full 4 points for the fact that you're not just a fan of the game, but also a real-life hero and a great father (and this is not sarcasm)... But what will change as a result of this?
If we're talking specifically about the CIS Championships (the history of which, by the way, is presented in a separate section on HW) - they started in 2010. And there's no humiliation for the veterans of those years when the Krasnodar championship was held. If the old-timers join in, we'll only be happy, and they will have a full voice. I just don't have any information about the championships of those years. And if you're upset that you weren't given enough points, just write when, in what year, and at which championship you participated. The same applies to Bishop. If Bishop believes that something was not taken into account, let him write. I posted the table for this purpose, so that everything is clear and transparent.
I hope that in the future we will be able to avoid such voting altogether.
