Posts from How many Soviet republics were there?
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My great-grandfather fought in the war, was captured, and escaped. And no one put him in a camp afterward; on the contrary, he was awarded. So, not everyone was imprisoned.
The question of the ideological essence of the USSR is very interesting. But the main thing that is often forgotten is that the ideology was not static but constantly changing. Take, for example, the dominant ideas of 1924, 1933, 1939, 1945, 1953, and 1956. They are radically different. As a rule, when analyzing the USSR, only data from the period of 1982-1989 is used. But this is a period of the most severe crisis. Let's then talk about the USA only during the Great Depression; that would be more objective. And here, take the data for the same year 1937: there was everything in the stores.
And one more question for you: who unleashed the repressions, and who was most involved in them?
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
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Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
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Regarding Moscow, I don't understand. So, you think that when 80% of the financial capital is concentrated in one city, that's normal? And the people in the regions are ungrateful bastards who not only want to live a decent life but also call a thief a thief? Do you know that my salary is twice lower than the average? And the salary of my professors at the university is also below average. Where do these average figures come from then? There's this saying: "I ate two chickens, and you ate none. But on average, we ate one chicken each." I will keep criticizing Moscow until there is a fair redistribution. With my salary, I can't even afford rent, let alone pay for utilities. And I don't think that the financial situation in the regions has improved compared to the USSR. It's easy to talk about the growth of prosperity while sitting in Moscow.
I can criticize the USSR, but there are plenty of people criticizing it without me. It's just a pity that they don't provide a SINGLE figure, only emotions. I can prove anything with emotions. But do you know that in Stalin's camps, only 8-20% were political prisoners, the rest were criminals? And of these political prisoners, most were imprisoned for quite criminal offenses, such as terrorism or sabotage. All those "artists" who talk about how they were oppressed in the USSR were not ashamed to receive awards from the Soviet government and were not ashamed to promote the Soviet system. Now, Rostropovich, a laureate of the Lenin and Stalin Prize, who supported the collapse of the Union in 1991, has died. Why didn't he refuse the award in Soviet times out of solidarity with Pasternak and Solzhenitsyn?
I hate hypocrites!
If you can't afford rent, where do you get the internet, especially at night? Something doesn't add up...
According to my data, 80% were political prisoners. That's why I avoid using figures - they are all too different.
As for the "artists"... Don't exaggerate, okay?
Yes, it's a pointless topic... There's no point in arguing with people who, behind the voice of their momentary outrage, caused by minor life problems, idealize the most disgusting system in human history...
Instead of engaging in empty talk about the wonderful USSR and the bad, poor, and powerless Russian Federation, try to make life better here and now. In the end, it's in your power, and you don't need to blame the government for everything. If people are good, even a slave-owning system will be paradise.
- Чжуан-цзы
Сильванис
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
There's no point in arguing with people who, behind the noise of their momentary outrage caused by minor life problems, idealize the most vile system in human history...
But in any case, remember Nazi Germany and don't throw around such words.
Especially since you only know the USSR from the stories of those who were wronged by the Soviet regime. But notice that there is no regime that wouldn't offend anyone. And judging it based on the words of those who suffered is not objective. I, for one, lived in the USSR and saw with my own eyes the absence of many of the horrors that are now told about it.
By the way, I even read somewhere that a boy was taken "to the authorities" at school for wearing imported sneakers, allegedly for aiding capitalism... I would have believed it, but here's the problem - my mom, dad, me, and many of my acquaintances wore imported sneakers, jeans, and T-shirts... with the ABBA logo:smile36: ...oh, how I coveted such a T-shirt, but there were only adult sizes:smile36:
In short, a lot of nonsense is being written now about those times. Of course, we didn't have complete freedom of speech. But the US doesn't either. And no matter how much we admire the US here, with its economy, the decline of culture there is terrible (by the way, this is not just a Russian, "Soviet" opinion - look at how sarcastically Americans and their culture are portrayed in many European films). Meanwhile, we don't really have any other model to follow. We can't try to follow the path of Slovakia, for example - they emerged from socialism and built a "capitalism with a human face," but this is a small country with a completely different economy than ours. An elephant won't fit in a cat basket. So, either we will try to become the second most powerful player on the board, balancing the US, that is, we will also create a powerful, captivating ideology and come up with a "mission" for the country, or we will remain in the position of a market square, where developed countries come to sell their products, and we simply work as promoters in the branches of their shops.
So, either we try to become the second most powerful player on the board, balancing the US, meaning we also create a powerful, captivating ideology and invent a "mission" for the country, or we will remain in the position of a marketplace where developed countries come to sell their products, and we merely work as promoters in branches of their stores.
However, people of your type need "captivating" ideologies, so if you want, I can come up with a couple for you. Maybe after the second collapse, people will stop reaching for such ideologies. No matter how many facts you and Alexei present to us now, the USSR was what it was, and your position can be understood. It's like a provincial person who lived and saw things. And will they show you much? Or is everything done openly? Your main argument is that you lived and didn't see such things. What about decrees, orders, archives, statistics? (Alexei, if I have time, I will bring you facts; I don't have much internet access myself right now). I see your angry face, dear Slonysh, so I will retreat in advance and won't argue anymore. Nor will I write.
I have internet because my mother pays for the apartment, and I live with her. But even though she earns a decent amount, she won't be able to afford an apartment.
I'll ask where you got your data about the 80% of political figures. If you received it through your chakras, then the question is settled.
As far as I can see, no one else here is providing any figures, so our argument is pointless. I can say that Christianity, and especially Orthodoxy, is the most disgusting religion because it leads people away from reality, promising them paradise after death. No facts, just emotions.
I, in turn, thought that after your question about sources, I was dealing with an expert, but it turns out I was wrong.
"1. Zdrov, "State Capitalism and Modernization in the USSR."
2. Zinoviev, many works, in particular "Catastroika," "The Collapse of Russian Communism."
3. Kagarlitsky, "Marxism. Not Recommended for Study."
4. Lenin, Complete Works.
5. Stalin, Complete Works.
6. World History, in particular volumes 9-13.
7. Numerous readily available information on the internet (if needed, I can provide specific links).
8. Materials from lectures on the history of the USSR by Doctors of Historical Sciences Kuznetsov, Isupov, and Solovyova."
Isn't that funny? Would Lenin and Stalin write anything bad about the USSR in their books? And what is this "World History"? What year and what publisher? I'm willing to bet it's from the Soviet era. The only thing I can say is that I don't know anything about the lectures by Kuznetsov, Isupov, and Solovyova... But I'll try to find them online.
And how can I take you seriously as an expert after this? An expert differs from an amateur in that they consider the problem from different angles, and not just from the one that they, for some unclear reason, like the most.
The attack on Orthodoxy is a rather crude personal attack, and it doesn't do you any credit. I expressed my opinion more or less on the topic, calling the USSR the most disgusting state (in my opinion, it was even worse than Nazi Germany - in the 1930s, of course, not in the 1960s or 1970s); Orthodoxy is somewhat out of place here...
And in Moscow now, at best, 2-3% of the population can afford to buy an apartment, because housing prices here are simply insane.
- Чжуан-цзы
Сильванис
Here, take this. Your "project" won't go any further than words on the forum.
Still, people of your type need "intoxicating" ideologies, so if you want, I can come up with a couple for you. Maybe after the second collapse, people will stop clinging to such ideologies. No matter how many facts you and Alexei present to us now, the USSR was what it was, and your position can be understood. It's like a provincial person who lived and saw things. And will they show you much? Or is everything done in a showy way? Your main argument is that you lived and didn't see it. What about decrees, orders, archives, statistics? (Alexei, I'll bring you facts when I have time; I don't have much internet access right now). I see your angry face, dear Slonysh, so I'll back down in advance and won't argue anymore. Or write.
Even if I were a provincial, the fact that you use this word as an insult shows snobbery and ridiculous arrogance. But I must disappoint you; your insight has failed you. Next time, when you want to guess someone's place of residence, just take a peek at their passport – it will be more reliable.
I'll note that nothing written in this thread is more absurd than your words:
No matter how many facts you and Alexei present to us now, the USSR was what it was, and your position can be understood. It's like a provincial person who lived and saw things. And will they show you much? Or is everything done in a showy way? Your main argument is that you lived and didn't see it. What about decrees, orders, archives, statistics?
And if you had read even one of my posts carefully, you might have noticed that I am not referring to what I "didn't see," as you put it, but to what I did see. And if I saw that even schoolchildren told jokes about the Politburo (out loud, not secretly in basements), then it's useless to wave documents in front of me about how people were imprisoned in the USSR for "words in the toilet."
As for your nonsense about "my Project," I advise you to come out of your berserk state and not attribute political ambitions to me.
I've already repeated to you three times in this thread that resorting to personal attacks in a political discussion is rude; now I'll add that it's also stupid. If I am talking abstractly about a state system, then there is no need to launch into tirades about what ideology is needed for "people of my type" and what "project" I have. I'm not discussing my type, my ideals, or my shoe size here. Focus on the topic of the USSR, not on guesses about the personal preferences of forum users.
And if in the first lines of your post, I simply thought that you absolutely didn't understand what and why I was saying, then by the last lines, I had an interesting thought about why you wrote all this. With your rude, familiar words about "face," did you want to provoke me? Well, don't stop; move on to "legs" and other body parts. Maybe you'll immediately convince everyone of your position. Besides, the discussion would be much more boring without a villain-provocateur.:smile33:
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
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Based on the above, I propose to close this thread, because there was only one USSR. And to keep this thread closed until Alexey Punk provides a link to a source stating that there were no USSRs at all or that there were more than one (two, three or more).
In the meantime, I suggest creating a new thread where we could discuss what the Soviet Union actually was as:
a) a socio-economic entity (please excuse the term);
b) a political entity, etc.
And regarding the socio-economic and political structure, could you be more specific?
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
