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Horn of the Abyss / HOTA
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Offline shpilenger
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Posts: 334
#35
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There are more pros than cons for King's Bounty. IMHO, and this has been mentioned before...
There's no point in engaging with trolls and arguing with someone who doesn't even play Heroes.
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Offline Wicc
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#36
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Hmm... and where did you see trolling here?

My opinion is that the red orb is not needed in Heroes; without it, the gameplay is richer and more engaging.

But this is a position similar to a political one, meaning it doesn't allow for strict logical proof or refutation. Therefore, decisions here are made by quorum – when this idea gains enough supporters, then KSH will be banned.
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Offline Noom
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#37
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In my opinion, without nerfing the summoning magic, removing the red orb isn't a great idea.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
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Offline Aiwe
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#38
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Banning the King's Shield will significantly change the game, and it's unclear in what direction. Personally, I think it will make the game more interesting. But this isn't a bug fix; it's a change to the game. You could hold tournaments with a King's Shield ban, which has already been done, but not ban it completely. In principle, there's a middle ground: make it a combination of two relics: a cloak and a King's Shield of level 1 or 2, for example.
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
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Offline Wicc
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#39
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The problem with the orb is also that it occupies a useful slot. In fact, it doesn't even occupy a slot, but rather frees one up – you don't need to take elemental books and stat boosters. The same goes for the cloak, which is taken instead of +2 speed, which is noticeable. If the orb were a shield+weapon combo, it would be a rather strategic item, not obvious in terms of application conditions.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#40
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Wicc
If it were a combo item, shield + sword, it would be a rather strategic artifact, not obvious in terms of application conditions.
Or at least, it could be worn on the head, as a counter to the Teapot :)
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Offline =Lizard=
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#41
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Banning KS/PO and antimagic in all elements was optimal, and people have been playing like that for a very long time, and it was great, but the Ekaterinburg mafia blah blah blah...
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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Offline shpilenger
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#42
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Wicc
The problem with the Orb is that it occupies a convenient slot. In fact, it doesn't even occupy a slot, but rather clears one – you don't need to take elemental books and enhancements.

The same goes for the amulet, which is taken instead of +2 speed, which is noticeable.

If the Orb were a shield+sword combo, it would be a rather strategic item, not obvious in terms of application conditions.
CS combined with AotD is often the only weapon against Necropolis. You can't replace the shield or sword. It would be great to have it instead of the amulet, and AotD + CS + Cloak of Negation wouldn't counter Haven.
=Lizard=
Banning CS/Po + antimagic in all elements would have been optimal, and people have been playing like that for a long time, and it was great, but the Yekaterinburg mafia, blah blah blah...
There were also trolls with skeletons with 11 speed and 20 HP ;) The heroes are great, but they are different now. For example, Armageddon in SoD and HotA are different spells in terms of strength.
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Offline Noom
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#43
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shpilenger
Chain Shield combined with Amulet of the Dead against Necropolis is often the only weapon. You can't replace the shield with a sword. But instead of a cloak, it would be great, and Amulet of the Dead + Chain Shield + Cloak of Disruption wouldn't be countered by Haven.

Also, trolls with skeletons at speed 11 and 20 HP used to run around ;) The heroes are great, but they are different now. For example, the Armageddon spell in Shades of Darkness and The Shadow of Death has different power.

Here they are discussing - Cyclops and Titans against skeletons exist, and there aren't many skeletons.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
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Offline shpilenger
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#44
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Noom
Here, they discuss – Cyclops and Titans versus skeletons, and there aren't many skeletons.
Yes, Necropolis is more related to SoD (Shadow of Death). I mean that with AotD (Armageddon's Blade) and KoH (King's Bounty), you can deal with a stronger enemy army.
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Offline JintoLengley
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Posts: 8
#45
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there is a Fortress stronghold, so armor can cause such trouble...
icq 250900284
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Offline Wicc
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#46
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JintoLengley
in the HotA, there's a Fist of Ogre, so armor can cause such trouble...
Yeah, and also add a ban on 1-2 level creatures. So, AoTD in HotA is a questionable strategy, even with the red orb. Unless it works as a surprise, if the opponent isn't aware of the trick.

Based on experience in Warlords of the North (where the orb is banned), AoTD is either for a rush on the 2nd week or for a second front, and it's better to equip the Pope with normal artifacts. I think the niche for AoTD in HotA is roughly the same.
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Offline =Lizard=
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#47
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shpilenger
Even trolls and skeletons with speed 11 and 20 HP used to run around ;) The heroes are great, but they are different now. For example, the Armageddon spell in SoD and WoG has different strengths.

No need to exaggerate) The speed of skeletons and trolls only increases by 1 with rank (from rank 7 to 10). And skeletons have a maximum of 18 HP, and that's only at rank 10, with Galtran and all the HP artifacts. In general, the point of WoG bonuses is that they are difficult to achieve in a minimal amount of time. And this is where true skill manifests itself - who of the rivals is able to conduct a greater number of meaningful battles in the same amount of time.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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Offline shpilenger
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#48
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JintoLengley
There’s an Ogre Fist in the castle, so armor can play such a nasty trick...
Clear and understandable. Is that a bad thing?
Wicc
Yep, and there’s also a 1-2 level spell prohibition. So, using Avatar of Death in the Castle is a questionable strategy, even with the red orb. Unless it works as a surprise if the opponent isn’t aware of the trick.
If there are counterarguments to the strategy and it’s not that overpowered, that speaks to the diversity of the gameplay. Of course, it’s all theoretical. It might work in some cases, and not in others.
Wicc

Based on my experience in War of the Tower (where the orb is banned), Avatar of Death is either for a rush on the 2nd week or for a second front, and it’s better to equip the Pope with normal artifacts. I think the niche for Avatar of Death in the Castle is roughly the same.
It’s highly doubtful to have Avatar of Death on the 2nd week, and even for a second front. The chances are no more than 1%.
However, using Ogre Fist and Avatar of Death with Chain Lightning in a full-fledged game is quite likely. I’d estimate it at 20%.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#49
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Because in Heroes of Might and Magic Online, the combined artifacts from quests were removed, the chance of obtaining an AotD (Artifact of the Dragon) has increased significantly. However, there are counter-arguments that this is a good thing.
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