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Posts from your questions regarding the game rules (improving the interpretation). Auto-translated

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In reply to Wicc
#137
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Wicc
The phrases "I mean" are not suitable for the text of the rules. Also, various images are not suitable.

The rule needs to be formulated in text and in a general form, suitable for the entire range of possible situations.

It is allowed to enter the Treasure room using wings or the Flight spell only through generated passages, while it is necessary to kill the guard or one of the guards of that passage. It is forbidden to fly over mountains.
The DD spell is allowed to be used in one of the cells, as close as possible to the Guard Outpost (GO) that the player is going to break through.
and you can add a link to a picture from that game where it is not allowed.
If you start with this?
435-191-039
Discord Iamsamstan#6087
In reply to skd
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#138
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skd
If necessary, to enter the Treasury to break through one of the many Guard Outposts (GO) and/or a shifted GO inside the Treasury, the player chooses a path for the hero that covers the minimum number of cells on the Treasury map and ends on a cell near the GO to be broken. In this case, the first interaction within the Treasury is breaking the GO. This rule also applies to cases where a GO is broken using air control.
Will the player need to count cells? Is a diagonal move considered the same as a horizontal move? And if the boundary of the respawn center is blurred graphically, and it is not possible to accurately determine the type of each cell for all cells? This happens on many landscapes. And if some cells are covered by objects, and it is difficult to determine the type of territory underneath them? Are mountains considered part of the Treasury territory or not? In general, many clarifying questions will arise...
In reply to Wicc
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#139
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Wicc
Does the player need to count the cells?
Players already count movement points by cells, don't they?
Wicc
Is a diagonal move considered the same as a horizontal move?
Diagonal move: 141, horizontal move: 100. There is a 50% penalty for sand. This is a well-known fact.
Wicc
And if the boundary between the respawn center is blurred graphically, and it is not possible to accurately determine the type of cells for all of them? This happens on many landscapes.
It is interpreted in favor of the player; the essence of the rule is to avoid abuse of "illegal scouting."
Wicc
And if some cells are covered by objects, and it is difficult to determine the type of territory under them?
Are mountains considered territory for the General or not? In general, many clarifying questions will arise...
Territories covered by objects are interpreted in favor of the player; mountains are not considered territory for the General. The General's territory is an area on the sand.

This is a rough version. If it is refined to eliminate ambiguities and add clarifying explanations with a screenshot and explanation of actions, it could be viable.

UTC+03:00, icq 593626431
In reply to skd
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#140
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skd
Players already calculate movement points based on cells, right?

Diagonal movement costs 141, horizontal movement costs 100. There's a 50% penalty for moving on sand. This is common knowledge.
You used the term "minimum number of cells traversed," not "minimum number of moves," which is why I asked.
It's interpreted in favor of the player; the essence of the rule is to avoid abuse of "illegal scouting."
I understand the point, but I'm thinking in terms of legal nitpicking, which is inevitable in a contentious situation.

I looked at the picture again, and the most illegal path is actually the brown line, which has 3 sand cells. The left red line has 1 sand cell. The central and right red lines have no sand; they land on snow. The blue line has 1 or 2 sand cells (it's hard to tell with the naked eye; a coordinate grid and route arrows would be needed).
In reply to Wicc
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#141
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Wicc

I looked at the picture again, and the most illegal path turned out to be the brown one, as it has аж 3 sand cells. The left red path has 1 sand cell. The central and right red paths have no sand at all; they land on snow. The blue path has 1 or 2 sand cells (it's hard to tell with the naked eye; a coordinate grid and route arrows are needed).
The brown trajectory was drawn for a player who doesn't have control; in that case, the brown trajectory is the closest for him.
Besides the sand cells on the right of the GO, the blue path also passes through the area where the Hive and Impy are located, so it's not the shortest path.

UTC+03:00, icq 593626431
In reply to Iamsamstan
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#142
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Iamsamstan
It is allowed to reach the Treasury using Wings or the Fly spell, but only through generated passages, and it is necessary to kill the guard or one of the guards of that passage. It is forbidden to fly over mountains.
The Destruction Domain spell is allowed to be used in one of the cells, as close as possible to the Castle that the player is going to attack.
and can you provide a link to a picture from that match showing that it is not allowed?
If we start with this?
This idea is good. The wording here could be something like:

When using Fly or Wings to select a Castle to attack or to select a battle point with a Castle, the flight path must not pass over natural obstacles (mountains, forests) that separate zones.
In reply to Iamsamstan
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#143
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Iamsamstan
It is allowed to enter the Treasury using wings or the Fly spell, but only through generated passages, and it is necessary to kill the guard or one of the guards of that passage. It is forbidden to fly over mountains.
The Destruction Domain spell is allowed to be used in one of the cells, as close as possible to the Guardian of the Objective that the player is going to attack.
And can you provide a link to a picture from that game where it is not allowed?
If you start with this, would that be okay?
Why is it not allowed? Do you even understand? I have wings, I see the Guardian of the Objective, I attack using the shortest path, what's wrong?!

лето 2012.
In reply to Dark
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#144
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Dark
Why can't I do that? Do you even understand?! I have wings, I see the target, I attack along the shortest path, what's wrong?!
We are discussing the wording that can correctly implement the specified restriction.

Whether this restriction is even necessary is another matter.
In reply to HellLighT
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#145
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HellLighT
Just remove the stupid rule about border Guard of the Objective. I've played thousands of Jebs and think it's quite normal and justified to use it this way; I would definitely do the same (moreover, if I'm not mistaken, I was the one who told Dark that it's possible to do so). The stories about "oh my god, he scouted" are nothing compared to the hassle that people get into by limiting movement with control... you can even stand on creature and resource banks without breaking the guard! And here, he supposedly scouted... omg, wtf.
Tech Luz! You forgot to add:D

Added 1 minute ago
Wicc
We are discussing the wording that can correctly implement the specified ban.

But whether this ban is needed at all is another matter.
And here, I agree 100%. Why discuss the wording of something new and ban it if, as you said, this ban is not needed at all?

лето 2012.
In reply to Wicc
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#146
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Wicc
When using Flight or Wings to select a target creature or to choose a battle location with a creature, the flight path should not pass over natural obstacles (mountains, forests) that separate zones.
Then, what's the point of these wings?
In reply to scorp
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#147
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scorp
then why have these wings at all?
For all other cases. On Jebus Cross, besides battles with ГО, there are many other things to do.

Added after 44 seconds
Dark
why discuss the wording of something new and forbid it, if this prohibition is not needed at all, as you said?
That's already a question from the series that are put to a vote. In other words, a matter of taste; it can be done either way. Personally, I'm more in favor of allowing flight however one likes.

Added after 3 minutes
skd
I drew the brown trajectory for a player who does not have control; in that case, the brown trajectory is the closest one for them.
The blue one, besides the cells on the sand to the right of ГО, also passes through the treasure zone where the Hive and Imp-spot are located, so it is not the minimum path.
Yes, I get the idea, it's just that such a version of the rules seems too complex to apply, as it puts too much strain on the player's brain and eyes. And moreover, it is prone to own disputed situations regarding whether a cell belongs to a zone or not. Also, a situation is possible where the player does not see the shortest path to ГО because it is in the dark.

In general, there are many pitfalls that need to be considered and listed; Iamsamstan's version is somehow simpler both in wording and application.
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#148
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perhaps it would be worth allowing flying to any location, but without collecting anything or attacking until the Guard of Order (GO) of any of the passages from which the hero flew is killed (and it must be killed on that turn by the hero who flew there). What's the point of scouting if you can't pick up anything, and you still have to return and attack the GO?
In reply to Dark
#149
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Dark
Why is that not allowed? Do you even understand?! I have wings, I see the enemy, I attack along the shortest path, what's wrong with that?!
I just formulated it from the point of view of prohibiting such an action.
In general, we need to start with the fact that there is a controversial situation, and we need to decide what to do with it in the future – prohibit it or allow it, and then we can formulate the rules.
435-191-039
Discord Iamsamstan#6087
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#150
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I believe that the player should have the ability to attack a Guard Outpost from any cell without restrictions, using any route. If the rules do not allow for this, it should be clarified.
In reply to Dirty_Player
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#151
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Dirty_Player
I believe that a player should have the ability to attack a Guard Tower from any cell without restrictions, using any route. If the rules don't allow for this, it needs to be clarified.
+1111111111111111111

Added after 46 seconds
Iamsamstan
I just phrased it from the perspective of prohibiting such an action.
In general, we need to start with the fact that there is a controversial situation and we need to decide what to do with it in the future – prohibit it or allow it, and then formulate the wording.
What's the point of the prohibition? There are wings, there's the shortest path; should I shove them up someone's ass?! And there's no penetration into the zone:cool:

лето 2012.