Skip to content

Posts from REWORK for the Academy. Is it needed or not? Auto-translated

No ratings yet — be the first to rate!
Closed
SoD. Rework for Mage Guild. Is it needed or not?
92 voters
Single choice Public votes Closed 2015-06-09
This poll is closed.
Of course, it’s needed
39.1% 36 votes
No, it’s not needed at all
60.9% 56 votes
User Avatar
#198
Auto-translated
And when will they stop using female avatars?

Added after 48 seconds
Yur, Lana Kostyan is pink )))) Well, what about you...?
Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!!
Но!...
Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...

#199
Auto-translated
I haven't visited this thread for a while; I read it, and nothing has changed. Players who have played Warlords Tactics still talk about the incompetence of those who haven't played it. No one answered my question at /post/815534/, but I believe that there will be exactly the same balance issues. Some people simply show an extremely high level of disrespect towards other people's opinions, as if they are superior players and others aren't very good. I won't write anything else in this thread
Когда рестартов не осталось, обязательно ждите Гурниссона без балисты:D

Комплимент который сделал мой день:
Катя ЭПИК барышня) вы бы видели как пялились на её сиськи молодёж) я та с девушкой был) но всё равно пялился ) потому что хорошие) (с) Browser

Слабая раздача, которую заиграл исключительно из-за колпака на 111. (с) Сатир

In reply to aka.Ward3n
User Avatar
#200
Auto-translated
I will answer your questions point by point:
1. Game balance. A 100% chance of control on XL maps will simply kill fast games on those templates. Will this bring balance? Who the hell knows. After all, balance depends not only on control, but also on the treasures in the zones. One player gets Dragon Fly Hives and cons, another gets obelisks and "besyaten" (Cyclops Stockpiles).
What do you mean by 100% chance? You often have to rebuild the Mage Guild 3-6 times. And you still have to try to find that many resources! While you're prioritizing resource gathering, Cyclops Stockpile breakthroughs, and the like, you'll lose tempo and a faster opponent might come and smack you. Answer: no
2. Won't we create new problems and new imbalances with a rebuildable Mage Guild? Now we run into the logistics problem. One player gets Logistics, the other doesn't. If in one scenario we had a chance to get Logistics along with control, now what do we do?
The same thing... where's the imbalance? Again, reasoning like "everyone has full control, so Logistics is an advantage"? Is that really the case?! More likely no than yes.
Okay, for example, both players got control (doesn't matter where). One has Logistics, and the other has some tank like Shakti. And in theory, the latter can't catch him while the former is eating up the map. Is that how it is? :smile32:
In practice, however, there are far more levers of influence. A good player will have several heroes with control and can easily outpace a fast Logistics player in terms of strategic map consumption.
Answer: again no.
3. Stronger players vote for the Mage Guild rebuild. But look at the average time when these stronger players' games end. Yes, perhaps it's an indicator of skill to drag out games and win in the late game even with a weak start. But in reality, we're not leaving any alternatives for play.
I remember very few games on WT that reached the second month. SoD itself is slower. If even strong players' games drag out, then for average players they drag out OBSCENELY to turns 23 and 24. I'm confident that the rebuild would actually alleviate this issue, because games drag out most often because one or both players can't find that damn Dimension Door. Another factor influencing delays is overly cautious play without forcing events. That is, one player, upon gaining full control of several heroes, can capture castles and kill off good enemy heroes. The other won't engage, won't expose themselves, and will try to hoard as many creatures as possible. So this situation exists by itself, regardless of the rebuild.
Answer: no
4. Well, expect tournament rounds to be dragged out across all tournaments due to late save deadlines, a-la 2xx and 3xx, because they didn't manage to finish in time.
Seriously? :rolleyes:
In reply to aka.Ward3n
#201
Auto-translated
aka.Ward3n
Haven't visited this thread for a long time, read through it, nothing has changed.

Players who played in WT are still talking about the incompetence of those who didn't play in WT.
No one ever answered my question at /post/815534/, and I believe these will be exactly the same balance issues.
The disrespect for others' opinions among some comrades is simply at the highest level, like I'm the daddy and you're not much of a player.
I won't write anything more in this thread
I don't really like WT, I played it maybe 10-15 times in total, it's a completely different game overall and it's different mainly because of the army experience, reworked skills, and classes, not because of the restructuring. It does seem like a logical option for a more balanced game. And regarding the fact that the WT daddies don't respond to some arguments against it, well, some of those arguments border on absurdity... just as an example, iv'e's argument: "Let me put it another way: currently the game on XL consists of searching for control, then Dragon Utopia / Dragon Fly Hives / stats, if we make the Mage Guild restructuring, then you won't have to spend the whole game using peasants to mine resources and build chains for various banks. For me, this would lose a piece of the game, although perhaps for offline tournaments with strict time limits, the restructuring would be beneficial." (C) Sorry, but this is just a facepalm, what do you mean you won't have to mine resources??? First of all, you need at least 28 of each resource for the 5th mage tower, where you got nothing in the Mage Guild, then several restructures of 4th and 5th levels is another 18 resources with extreme luck up to 108 of each resource with bad luck, and this is called not having to mine??? As it is right now, judging by the huge number of streams I've watched, almost everyone ignores searching for resources and building the guild until at least the 2nd month, unless they find a Town Portal / Dimension Door scroll, hoping to get everything from Dragon Utopias and only at the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd month, if they don't find one, they try to start building something. It's not uncommon to see people not even take Wisdom not just at level 6, but even at level 12... And with all that, it's very unpleasant when you have games where you built level 5 Mage Guild on days 211-221, spending 140 of each resource and a ton of peasant actions to mine them, mined a bunch of scrolls and have neither Town Portal nor Dimension Door nor even View Air from 7 level 1 Mage Guilds, and you just watch as your opponent slowly devours the map, having had all of this for a week or two either from the first guild or from the first-second Dragon Utopia, while you don't even have a hint of counterplay left.
In reply to aka.Ward3n
User Avatar
#202
Auto-translated
aka.Ward3n
I haven't visited this thread in a while, and I've read it – nothing has changed.

What about the voting numbers?
User Avatar
#203
Auto-translated
Yura, I respect you.
Konstantin, I respect you too, which is why I offer constructive criticism.
But let's not have you tell me what to do; I really don't like that.
That's a mistake. Those who stop learning also stop developing and begin to regress. This applies to players, hosts, and moderators alike.

When a questionable situation arises, we shouldn't get defensive; instead, we should start thinking and perhaps ask others for their opinions. And we shouldn't take fair criticism personally.
Oh, you scared me; oh, I'm so afraid. I've always said, and I'm saying now, that if the forum doesn't need what I'm doing, I'll gladly step down. I think any moderator could say the same. What we do doesn't give us any privileges, but it does create a lot of hassle.
But there's no need to play the role of the offended innocent. If you're involved in something, it means you enjoy it for some reason. If you didn't enjoy it, you wouldn't do it. You need a rather specific situation to use this as an excuse (see John Silver), and such situations are quite rare.
You'll keep arguing with DaU that your thread about experience isn't trolling.
I'm not denying that it's trolling. It's just a way of conveying my thoughts to the community. And it's been continued by Heroes13 and DaU, and they weren't trolling; they were serious.

This is a clear illustration of the point I made a few pages ago: if we allow the possibility of changing the gameplay of SoD, there will be no shortage of people wanting to change something. And it will be difficult to fend them off. For example, the idea of underground lava is very good, and we could easily get enough votes to include it in a release (not now, of course).
Also, you shouldn't be lecturing us about forum rules (which you probably haven't even read), because if you strictly followed them, you would have already accumulated enough violation points for a permanent ban.
And I'm not the only one. That's why strictly following the forum rules isn't practiced; they are replaced by concepts and customs.
P.S. If at least 2-3 people write in the forum or on ICQ that one of these topics is useful and needed, I will immediately restore it.
Safety regulations for handling the administrative stick state that you should consider the opinion of the public before swinging it, not after. Because a bad aftertaste will remain in any case.
#204
Auto-translated
And, by the way, I forgot to add that a game with control on HL+U also brings in a lot of strategy and reveals how much preparatory work a person did beforehand—not only in capturing resources with "loshkis," but also in leveling those same "loshkis" to have several additional supports with enough wisdom to learn everything, Earth for TP or Air for 2x DD, and how and where to use them. Everyone has more or less gotten used to taking small cons on the 1st or maxes on the 2nd and utopias at the start of the 3rd, but in a game with control—mutual control—they lose quite a bit; I feel this myself, for example, and also from watching many streams. And a significant portion of those who voted against it simply doesn't want to lose their additional chance to chew up someone like a stinger by gaining a lead in control a couple of weeks earlier in the 1st utopia-tower.
In reply to LuckyF
User Avatar
#205
Auto-translated
LuckyF
And a decent portion of those who voted against simply don't want to lose their extra chance to take down someone like Stinger, getting a head start in controlling the map for a couple of weeks earlier in the first Utopia-Tower.
Yeah. Poker is so popular because every novice or average player who sits down at a table with a player like Negreanu hopes to beat him. Not to play better (that's impossible), but to win.
In reply to Wicc
#206
Auto-translated
Wicc
Yeah. Poker is so popular because every novice or average player who sits down at a table with a player like Negreanu hopes to beat him. Not to play better (that's impossible), but to win.

No, poker is so popular because it has a very good combination of very simple rules for gambling novices (a person who has played for an hour or two already feels like they know how to play) and real depth and a very distant limit in development for those who want to win and earn money from it. And poker is a game of distance; it is incorrect to compare it with Heroes, especially with Heroes tournaments, where the distance is a single game, and the tournaments last for six months. And what repels players from Heroes, I think, is not the rare opportunity to beat the strongest, but simply its specificity and the time it takes. And the spectacle as an esport is specific and appeals to a narrow community; restructuring a guild will certainly not reduce its watchability.
User Avatar
#207
Auto-translated
The psychological effect is the same. Everyone who starts playing with, say, Stinger hopes that "now I'll get a good draw... I'll crush everyone, and then write a pompous report." Therefore, it makes sense to divide tournaments into "fun" and "determining the best." The second category includes FB, CIS... well, probably everything else. It's better to play mirror matches in these. And in the rest, let there be some variance; in my opinion, it's not critical. And in both cases, restructuring the guild is not needed at all. This question arises from attempts to mix oil and water – the unbalanced gameplay of SoD and the need for a more or less objective determination of the strongest. It's better not to strain yourself and just keep them separate.
#208
Auto-translated
That's a debatable statement. Even regarding mirror matches – it's a rather specific game where you know exactly what your opponent has and how it's positioned, and reducing everything to the idea that only mirror matches represent a serious game is incorrect. Moreover, it can't be said that mirror matches definitively determine the strongest player; there's also an element of luck involved, at least in guessing which creature to start with. Different matchups have their own appeal, but that doesn't mean there should only be a focus on mirror matches, and it shouldn't be impossible to strive for some balance without ruining the game. Otherwise, why aren't games limited to a maximum of two heroes and a turn time of two minutes in our rules? That would give newcomers even more chances to beat a "hypothetical stinger," and according to your logic, it would increase popularity.
User Avatar
#209
Auto-translated
It's been a while since the last tournament for fixed maps...))


In reply to LuckyF
User Avatar
#210
Auto-translated
LuckyF
Debatable statement. At least regarding mirror matches — that's a rather specific game where you know exactly what your opponent has and how it's positioned.
Those concerns were initially present. But it turned out they were unfounded; the principles of the game remain the same.
And reducing everything to saying that serious play is only possible in them is incorrect. Nor can it be said that mirror matches absolutely identify the strongest player; there is also an element of luck involved — at the very least, guessing which treasure zone to start from.
Well, chess also has an element of luck — you can guess the opening correctly and land in your opponent's "blind spot" in preparation, or you can run into a "bomb" and lose without a fight. Therefore, absolute precision is not the point; from time to time there are "sensational" results, but the existing level of precision is sufficient for chess to be considered a competitive sport.
Playing with different setups has its own appeal, but that doesn't mean it should only be funka on prooshka and that you can't strive to add some balance that doesn't spoil the game.
This reasoning applies to constructing a game from scratch. But the gameplay of Heroes3 has a long trail of habits and standards, and overcoming them is an ungrateful task (see the voting results).
Otherwise, why aren't the rules defined as playing with a maximum of 2 heroes and a 2-minute turn? Then beginners would have even more chances to beat a "conditional Stinger" and, by your logic, it would add popularity.
At one point (in 2007-2008) on HeroesWorld they played roughly like this — sm-ka, 4 minutes, and in 100% of games. And no one complained; they considered this exact format the most appropriate for online Heroes. It's a matter of habit.
User Avatar
#211
Auto-translated
By the way, yes. If someone were to do something like that, it would be interesting to see.
But, in my opinion, it would be better to choose not ten maps, but one of the very best, so that people could easily understand it.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
User Avatar
#212
Auto-translated
In my opinion, the 33 to 51 ratio in the vote clearly indicates the need to introduce the option to rebuild structures with the mutual consent of the players (in the form of a checkbox).
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt