The 3rd stage of the annual John Van Caneghem Tournament (2007). — Tournament history (offline)

VDV_forever

19 years ago

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IronAxe;80527

Personally, nothing has changed in the game's appearance, and no bugs have been fixed, including the double cast issue. I used the patches that VDV_forever and AmberSoler provided links to. In short, I just don't use prohibited bugs.

Most likely, you have a pirated version of the game, which is not ideal.

Sage;80540

The issue wasn't fixed for me either. I tried both patching and replacing the executable with the 3.2 executable.

Same here.

IronAxe;80590

Where can I find a list of prohibited bugs? Because many people can't patch the game. The rules for this tournament only mention the prohibition of buying back a dismissed hero. In other words, does this mean that newcomers who are unaware can use double cast? What else did I miss? Create a separate thread with the rules for version 3, where you clearly list the rules and prohibited bugs. And in the tournament announcements for version 3, simply include a link to the rules thread so that you don't have to bother yourself or others every time. You can do the same for each version of the Heroes games and even for each type of tournament.

1. First of all, the rules state that you cannot use cheats or bugs.

2. A thread with all known bugs is planned, but this will happen when there is time. I'm not made of iron:D, I simply can't do everything.

3. On the other hand, if all the bugs are published, there will be a greater temptation to use them for those who were not previously aware of them. This is not good, because today no program can detect the use of these bugs by a player, which means that the organizer will have even more headaches, because he checks all the saves manually!

4. I am forced to leave the city, and therefore the forum, for 2-3 days due to personal circumstances. I hope for your understanding. You can ask all questions during this period to Alan or AlexeyPanku, they will give you comprehensive answers.

Sincerely, VDV_forever

Kamikaze

19 years ago

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By the way, I think Gandalf should be tested for doping. Otherwise, he's turning into some kind of Bjoerndalen! ;)

In reply to Kamikaze

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Kamikaze;80682

I, by the way, think Gandalf needs to be tested for doping. Otherwise, he's turning into some kind of Bjørndalen! ;)

:) So far, Gandalf hasn't been caught using any doping. He provides saves and reports for his walkthroughs in full.

Added after 27 minutes

VDV_forever;80627

1. Well, first of all, the rules state that you cannot use cheats and bugs.

Well, the cheats part is clear. But the fact that the rules say you can't use bugs doesn't really mean anything. Let's say I, or someone else, don't even know what bugs are :) So the absence of a list of forbidden bugs is not a good thing.

VDV_forever;80627

2. A topic like that with all known bugs is planned, but this idea will be implemented when time permits. I'm not made of iron:D , I simply can't do everything at once.

The main thing is that it gets done gradually at least, because last time you explicitly indicated the ban on double cast, but this clause is missing for this tournament. But new players also arrive.

VDV_forever;80627

3. On the other hand, if all the bugs are published, then there will be a greater temptation to use them for those who hadn't even suspected them before. This is not good, because today no program can detect a player's use of these bugs, which means even more headache for the organizer, since he checks all saves manually!

And that's a double-edged sword :) And if the bugs are not published and someone uses them, even if caught, they will say they didn't know it was a bug, since it's not specified in your rules that it is a bug. And the phrase in the rules that you SIMPLY can't use bugs is like saying butter is oily :)

VDV_forever;80627

4. I have to leave the city, and consequently the forum, for 2-3 days due to personal circumstances. I hope for your understanding. You can direct all questions during this time to Alanu or AlexeyPanku, they will give comprehensive answers to them.

It's understandable that it's hard for one person to start a topic with a list of bugs. But you're not the only organizer. Someone will help.

In reply to IronAxe

Sage

19 years ago

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IronAxe;80746

I understand that it's difficult for one person to start a thread with a list of bugs. But you aren't the only organizer. Someone will help.

Such a thread has been open for quite some time now, but no one seems to be in a hurry to report the bugs.

In reply to Sage

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Sage;80758

Such a thread has been open for quite some time, but no one is in a hurry to talk about the bugs.

Well, I wrote about this above. Since there isn't a specific list of prohibited bugs, they can be used :) If you get caught doing it, the main thing at the moment is that it’s not clear on what basis :) What responsibility will there be? But if there is a list of prohibitions – concrete rules, then “I didn’t know it was a bug” won’t work as an excuse. And right now, we only know that bugs cannot be used. The question is: what exactly does that mean? :)
I only know two in Heroes 3. You can't double-cast spells and you can't buy back a fired or dead hero on the same turn. Well, all cheat codes are also forbidden. A list of cheat codes is not needed. Everything is clear here.

In reply to IronAxe

vbn

19 years ago

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I also seem to recall a bug being mentioned regarding exchanging artifact armies at the altar for experience, or something about selling artifacts at an inflated price.

In reply to vbn

IronAxe

19 years ago

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vbn;80766

It seems there was also a mention of a bug with exchanging army units/artifacts in the altar for experience, or something about selling artifacts at an inflated price.

So, what exactly is it? This should be in the rules. Because I personally use the altar. Regarding selling artifacts, I only know that there's a bug if you sell them from your backpack. But if you sell them directly from your hero, everything will be fine. That is, you need to sell them in parts: sell everything from your hero, exit, equip the next batch of artifacts from your backpack, go back to the artifact trading, and sell everything from your hero again, and so on. Then you won't be able to exploit the bug to inflate the price of artifacts.

Honour

19 years ago

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Sign me up too!

Romanuel

19 years ago

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aaaaaaah, that's amazing! I didn't even know that was possible.

In reply to Romanuel

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Romanuel;80805

Wow... I didn't even know that was possible.

Another example to support my point. Due to a lack of knowledge, a player could sell artifacts not only from their hero but also directly from their backpack, and by chance, they could even profit from the artifacts sold from their backpack. In essence, they could unintentionally exploit a prohibited bug because they were completely unaware of it. On the other hand, how would they prove it, and who could even prove that they didn't know? So, let's clearly state it in the rules to avoid any ambiguity. And if someone gets caught, they won't have anything to argue with.

Kamikaze

19 years ago

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Let's list all the bugs, require all tournament participants to familiarize themselves with this information, and then excuses like "yes, but I didn't know it was a bug" or similar won't work. Before each tournament, provide a link to the topic with a list and description of the bugs. I think this is the best solution. Describing all the shortcomings in the rules every time is too cumbersome.

In reply to Kamikaze

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Kamikaze;80826

Let's describe all the bugs, require all tournament participants to familiarize themselves with this information, and then excuses like "yes, but I didn't know it was a bug" or something similar won't work. Before each tournament, provide a link to the topic with a list and description of the bugs, and let the games begin. I think this is the best solution. Describing all the shortcomings in the rules every time is too cumbersome.

That's what I'm talking about. The rules should be clear and not contain lines like: "Using bugs is prohibited," when, as we can see, many people don't know not only about specific bugs but also what they are in general. :)
For example, I don't know what version of the game I have (pirated or not) - it's not written anywhere, but it doesn't get patched. And here's an example: the Ballista bug:
I'm having a battle against slow units (they're all in one group), I have one fast unit and a ballista - there are no ammunition carts. The fast unit moves this group of monsters around the battlefield so that the monsters can't catch it, but they also don't attack the ballista. The ballista shoots at the monsters. The ballista has 24 shots. But what do I see - when the bullets run out, the ballista still shoots, and the remaining shots continue to be counted, only going into negative numbers (-1, -2, -3, etc.), and it continues to deal damage to the enemy. Theoretically, the battle can be won, and with enough persistence and patience, it can be won in practice. Did many people know about this? Why shouldn't I use this in the game - it's clearly not prohibited. Let's say I'm so honest :) that I won't use it, but where is my guarantee that another player won't accidentally use it. Well, he doesn't look at the remaining shots - he just runs around and everything is fine. This is not in the list of prohibited bugs, and the player is not to blame for being so unobservant. But what am I to blame for, and why should I be in unequal conditions with this player? If the bug were clearly prohibited, then we would all be in equal conditions. So, the question is - should I continue to shoot the ballista without ammunition or not? :D The rules don't say anything about this. And I don't know if it's a bug or not - maybe it's just a clever magical ballista. :)
PS: And what exactly is the violation on the part of the player? He has the right to attack with a ballista and one unit against superior forces - he does. Then he simply doesn't want his unit to be killed and runs around. He can't stop the ballista - it shoots automatically. And what? What is the violation? I also want to appeal to those who have a normal, patched version - is this bug (or not a bug) fixed there? If it's not too much trouble, please take a look.

Kamikaze

19 years ago

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I don't consider the aforementioned deviation from the norm to be a bug, as it's impossible to avoid. I think bugs are actions that a player deliberately performs for a specific benefit. Moreover, it's very difficult to take advantage of such a specific bug. But still, thank you very much for the experience, Mr. Iron Man! Let's create a BUGLISTING, people!!!

In reply to Kamikaze

IronAxe

19 years ago

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Kamikaze;80838

I don't consider the aforementioned deviation from the norm to be a bug, as it's impossible to avoid. I think bugs are actions that a player deliberately performs for a specific benefit. Moreover, it's not very easy to take advantage of such a specific bug. But still, thank you very much for the experience, Mr. Iron Man! Let's do some BUGLISTING, people!!!

The point is that a player can deliberately attack with a specific composition against certain monsters in order to win by taking advantage of the fact that the ballista doesn't run out of ammunition. You are suggesting that this should be allowed. But it would be interesting to hear the opinion of the organizers regarding this action, and it would also be useful to find out whether it works in the patched version or not. Otherwise, players will be in unequal conditions because some have a patched version where, for example, the ballista's ammunition is counted normally. So, should we listen to the opinion of the heads of the transport department? And at the same time, people who have a normal, patched version. What's the deal? Does the ballista run out of ammunition or not?

Kamikaze

19 years ago

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Yes, absolutely, I'll check it today because it could create a significant imbalance. And if this bug exists in all versions, I think it should be fixed because, if you imagine a ballista destroying a hundred dendroids, it's not a pleasant sight. But you can't take down fast monsters this way. I think it's starting to get out of hand :smile01:

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