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Posts from Harmony - Troop Symmetry

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Offline SRD
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#199
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There probably won't be white dragons in the game – the fans don't seem to like that idea for the castle, but they might appear as neutral creatures. Griffons are being added as a counter to manticores, creating some symmetry. I'm curious, though: were dragons of light ever mentioned in the lore of Ashan? All the other dragons have their own race and offspring (Silanna has the elves and emerald dragons, Arkath has the dwarves and lava dragons, Malassa has the faceless and black dragons, Elrath has the angels – but where are the dragons of light?

Added 11 minutes later
 By the way, it might be better to base the elf dragon summon on the avatar. And the Arantir special ability could be replaced with something else – for example, there's a company where the hero's specialization periodically summons dragons during battle. I think that idea originated from the original Heroes game. Something like that happened during the siege of the city of Biara.
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Offline SRD
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#200
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I had an idea about dividing the magic schools into 6 – we currently have 4. For Orcs, the magic schools have somehow been replaced with the "Suppression" skill. So, by replacing and modifying, we can do the following: the hero still has access to the original 4 magic schools, but the other two are unavailable, and each race has its own limitations. For example, Sylvan elves wouldn't have access to Darkness and Fire, and Dark elves wouldn't have access to Light, etc. The skill wheel won't expand further. Why did the thought process lead to the "Suppression" skill? Someone told me that it wouldn't be possible to add new skills. There's a free skill available – raising a skeleton archer.
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Offline SRD
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#202
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So, is this actually feasible? (To divide magic into 6 schools, adding two new skills to the game, but still only grant access to a specific set of four schools for each race, with each race having its own unique set.)
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Offline Ment
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#203
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As far as I understand, the battle cries are completely tied to the Orc class. And that sixth school isn't really a school at all, but rather a container for a couple of spells. It simply doesn't have any skills or abilities, so the sixth school is closer to something like creature abilities, such as "charge" or "strike from above."
 

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Offline SRD
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#204
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How exactly are the magic schools replaced with dampeners?

Added 7 minutes later
Here's another idea: reduce the spellcasting skill – it will become another magic school, and the ability to cast spells more often can be added to air magic.
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Offline Ment
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#205
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How were the magic schools replaced with
suppressions?
I haven't looked into it, so I don't know. I suspect that it's all embedded in the executable file.
 

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Offline SRD
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#206
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I'd like to get a general opinion – is it worth dividing the schools of magic into 6? What are your thoughts, what are the possibilities for implementation, and if we keep chaos, darkness, light, and summoning, how can we distribute them more logically – is it nonsense to have TE without darkness and LE without summoning?
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Offline fktifzobr@mail.ru
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#207
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SRD
How are the schools of magic replaced with silences?

Added 7 minutes later
Here's another idea: reduce the spellcasting skill – it will become another school of magic, and the ability to cast spells more often can be put into air magic.
Silence magic, as well as war cries and orcish spellcasting, can be given to any class of heroes, but only barbarians can learn war cries.
Мои мини-моды

Мод RTF

Мои NCF существа
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Offline Ment
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#208
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My opinion is that we shouldn't change it to six schools. Even if it's possible to do, nothing decent will come of it, as there are too few spells in the game for six schools. And yes, this is Ashan, so there are seven elements here (the seventh is primordial magic). Implementing seven schools would definitely be technically impossible.
 

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Offline Xokke_SuG
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#209
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SRD
I'd like to get a general opinion – is it worth dividing the schools of magic into 6? What's your opinion, what are the possibilities for implementation, and if we leave chaos, darkness, light, and summoning, how can we distribute them more logically – TE without darkness and LE without summoning – that's nonsense.

In my opinion, we need to make one magic primary and the other secondary. Give everyone two schools of magic, except for mages – they can have a mix of three. If we want full symmetry, then two schools will suffice.

Then:

Humans - Light, Darkness.
Sylvan - Light, Summoning.
Mages - Summoning, Chaos.
Dungeon - Chaos, Darkness.
Necropolis - Darkness, Summoning.
Inferno - Chaos, secondary buffs and debuffs.
Stronghold - Shouts, sword magic, which is enhanced warrior progression.
Fortress - Light, Chaos. (They shouldn't just throw runes).

And that seems to work well.
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Offline Ment
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#210
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The irony is that you can’t change the magic schools for Haven without also changing the abilities of their units and the skills of their heroes. Light unicorns require light, and enchanted arrows and ballistae require chaos (or darkness as an alternative, but it would look strange for Haven). Neither chaos + summoning nor light + summoning works.
In general, it should be said that the schools in the game are reasonably well-chosen. They don’t always fully match the lore of the factions, but the current arrangement of schools provides the best synergy, and that’s more important.
 

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Offline SRD
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#211
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Here's another nonsensical idea – those who worship the dragon of darkness are specialists in chaos, while those who worship the dragon of chaos are more inclined towards darkness.
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Offline Nargott
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#212
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Ment
The irony is that you can't change the schools of magic for the Elves without also changing the abilities of their units and the skills of their heroes. Light Unicorns require Light, and Enchanted Arrows and Ballista require Chaos (or Darkness as an alternative, but it would look strange for the Elves). Neither Chaos + Summoning nor Light + Summoning works.
In general, it should be said that the schools of magic are reasonably well-chosen in the game. They don't always fully match the lore of the factions, but the current arrangement of schools provides the best synergy, and that's more important.
Why do Enchanted Arrows require Chaos? They can perfectly well work with Summoning (Fist, Wasps). Higher Chaos could be just as exotic (and strong) as Higher Darkness.

So, Light + Summoning is perfectly fine for the High Elves.
Chaos + Darkness works well for the Dark Elves, as Darkness can be used for Subjugation. Very often, in the RTA (Arena) format, Dark Elves are developed specifically towards Darkness.
Finally, Mages often play with both Summoning and Chaos, but Light doesn't suit them at all.

Added after 44 minutes
Xokke_SuG

Humans - Light, Darkness.
Wood Elves - Light, Summoning.
Mages - Summoning, Chaos.
Dark Elves - Chaos, Darkness.
Necromancers - Darkness, Summoning.
Demons - Chaos, secondary buffs and debuffs.
Orcs - Shouts, Sword Magic, which is enhanced Warrior development.
Dwarves - Light, Chaos. (They shouldn't just throw runes).
And everything seems to be fine.
This is exactly the division that is made in the Wargame Edition mod.
Only for Demons, it's still Chaos and Darkness, with an emphasis on Chaos, and for Dark Elves, it's Darkness.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Offline Ment
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#213
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They can perfectly play with summons (fist, wasps).
Yes, and you can also throw magic arrows. But no, the fist is immediately ruled out; it's a parody. The wasp swarm sometimes works due to the initiative reduction, but it's a very situational combo. So, light magic + summons for Haven is not a good idea...
Exactly this kind of division is made in the Wargame Edition mod.
WGE is a global mod. You can change schools there, which also changes creatures and, in the future, hero skills. And then everything is tested for balance. But simply changing things is a completely different question.
 

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