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Posts from Discussion of CIS-2015 details

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11 years ago
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It's not about the large prize pool, but about the attitude towards the tournament itself. Very often, people lose interest in the tournament almost immediately because they go off to play poker, get drunk, hang out in bars, and so on. I see increasing the entry fee as a way to add extra responsibility and commitment to the tournament itself.
In reply to =Stinger=
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11 years ago
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=Stinger=
It's not about the large prize pool, but about the attitude towards the tournament itself.
Very often, people lose interest in the tournament almost immediately because they go off to play poker, get drunk, hang out in bars, and so on. I see increasing the entry fee as a way to add more responsibility to the tournament itself.

Artem, you should make it a double elimination tournament (and consequently, a best-of-three final), otherwise there's a chance of being eliminated without a chance to win first place after just one loss to a top player. And immediately, there's a high chance that players of average skill simply won't participate in a tournament where they don't think they have a chance to win a prize (from their point of view). As a result, that very group of players who lost interest and went to drink, but contributed money to the prize pool and the conference room rental, simply won't show up, and everyone will be paying for it with just 5 people who plan to dominate the CIS region.
In reply to Noom
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11 years ago
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Noom
Artem, we should definitely do double elimination (and consequently, best-of-3 in the final); otherwise, there's a chance of being eliminated without a chance to compete for first place after just one loss against a top player. Also, there's an immediate high chance that players of average skill simply won't participate in a tournament where they don't see a chance of winning prizes (from their perspective). As a result, the very group of players who were indifferent and went out to have fun, but contributed money to the prize pool and the conference room rental, simply won't come, and everything will be paid for by 5 people who plan to dominate the CIS region.

Double elimination won't happen in the CIS tournament; we don't have enough time to accommodate it with proper scheduling. Either that, or it will just be for fun, like M200.
In reply to KobRa_RR
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11 years ago
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KobRa_RR
There definitely won't be double elimination in the CIS region; we won't have time to implement it with proper brackets. It will either be a fun format, like M200.

Then what's the point of high buy-ins if the outcome in the bracket is decided by chance?
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11 years ago
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Donations of 5k and double buy-ins with best-of-three are not possible; we need to realistically assess things. The initial proposal from the organizers is more than adequate, and the post-ban came at just the right time... I somehow missed it before. P.S. Although, to prevent the poker players from complaining, who turn every Heroes SNG into an amateur poker SNG, we should definitely take a cut from them!
In reply to Noom
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11 years ago
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Noom
Then what's the point of high buy-ins if it all comes down to luck in the game?

Are you telling this to me? I'm actually saying that the buy-in shouldn't be more than 1500 rubles, and those who want to play for higher stakes can contribute extra on the spot or play for an additional stake.
In reply to Noom
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11 years ago
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Noom
Then what's the point of high buy-ins if a coin flip decides everything in the tournament?

In my opinion, it's very strange to register for a CIS tournament as a participant without considering yourself to be a player of the appropriate level. It's like playing poker at a 1/2 cent stake – you think you can easily win a few bucks for free, and if you don't, who cares. Stinger said it very accurately – increasing the buy-in increases the level of responsibility. Plus, regarding being eliminated after one loss – almost always, 2nd place is contested by 3-7 people who definitely recoup their buy-in. But losing to a random mediocre player who decided to participate just because the buy-in is insignificant is twice as frustrating. And, by the way, Beshi's post was exclusively about donations from viewers, and I supported him then – donations from viewers were optional. But with participants, there should be no "optional" aspect. We can easily get 20 people who can realistically compete for prizes. And what's the point of having more, given the limited time frame of the tournament? Let the others just drink, chat, and learn by watching high-quality games live.
In reply to =Lizard=
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11 years ago
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=Lizard=
In my opinion, it's very strange to register for the CIS region as a participant without considering yourself to be a player of the appropriate level.
And even stranger – to think that's a mistake :D
In reply to Noom
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11 years ago
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Noom
Artem, you should make it a double elimination (and consequently, a best-of-3 in the final), otherwise there's a chance of being eliminated without a chance to compete for first place after just one loss against a top player. And immediately, there's a high chance that players of average skill simply won't participate in a tournament where they don't see a chance of winning a prize (from their point of view). As a result, the very group of players who would have given up and gone to drink, but who contributed money to the prize pool and the payment for the conference room, simply won't come, and everything will be paid for by 5 people who plan to dominate the CIS region.

Well, it's a matter of personal preference, but for me, participating in the CIS region is a matter of prestige.
If you're going to give up and go drinking, it's better not to participate at all.
Better less, but better.
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11 years ago
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well, by the way, Besha is right about something. After all, at least half of the participants aren't aiming for prize-winning places and understand that they'll be eliminated in the first or second round. But they'll still pay for the entire rental period of the hall plus the buy-in.
In reply to Nitro
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11 years ago
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Nitro
well, by the way, Besha is right about something. After all, at least half of the participants don't expect to win prizes and understand that they will be eliminated in the first or second round. But they will pay for the entire rental period of the hall + the buy-in.
It makes sense to pay for the rental. Otherwise, the organizers definitely won't be able to afford it.
But additional fees from the prize pool are nonsense.
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11 years ago
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I support Lizard and Stinger. Let's not turn the CIS Championship into a "fun, casual event"; let's not lower the tournament's level to the absolute bottom! Many people don't remember, or have forgotten... Let me remind you that once upon a time, the CIS even held qualifying rounds (at least they tried) and presented it as the Top League (the main event of the year), which is what it should be! Like a tournament in the "Masters" series, or a "Grand Slam," if you want an analogy. It's not something that just anyone can easily qualify for and afford to "sit around with a bottle of beer" and play casually just for the sake of it! Let's keep the regional, local, fun gatherings as "friendly competitions," and treat the CIS Championship with more respect! This is a matter of prestige, the level of competition, the top league, if you will. If any of the players don't consider themselves real contenders to compete for prizes, and because of that, don't want to spend extra money (which is basically pocket change compared to other expenses, for the most important competition of the year!!!) - that's their business; let them not participate, come to hang out, drink, play cards... ______________________________ P.S. What's with all this now? 1500 rubles isn't even enough to buy a decent bottle of cognac! I think each of you spends that much on any of your entertainment several times a month, whether it's sitting in a bar, playing cards, or doing sports, etc., but here, you come to the CIS Championship ONCE A YEAR and complain about a difference of +/– 1-2 rubles on the buy-in, complain about the crisis, etc. - it's like a kindergarten. ARE YOU TOP HEROES PLAYERS, OR ARE YOU JUST COMING TO PICK YOUR NOSES AND PLAY AROUND ON THE COMPUTER!!?? :D
In reply to Alexxl
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11 years ago
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Alexxl
Esteemed professionals, and those who want to increase the prize pool, how about this:
1. Entry fee per participant: 1500
2. Spectator fee: 500
3. Players who make it to the 1/2 finals contribute to the prize pool, say 5000 each, or whatever we agree on.
In this case, both ordinary players will be satisfied, and the prize pool will be increased, thanks to those who advocate for its increase, and they will have a real chance to win it.

I thought the first two points were the most optimal, and the third one would be decided on the spot.
In reply to Dust_HL
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11 years ago
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Dust_HL
and here, once a year, you come to the CIS Championship and discuss the difference of +-1-2 rubles on the buy-in, complain about the crisis, etc. - it's like kindergarten.

ARE YOU TOP PLAYERS IN HEROES, OR ARE YOU JUST COMING TO PICK YOUR NOSE BEHIND THE COMPUTER?? :D
Lyokha, it seems like you've already bought tickets, and you have a lot of money? :D Maybe you also want to play Heroes with a 5k buy-in? :D
In reply to Dirty_Player
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11 years ago
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Dirty_Player
Lexa, it seems you've already bought tickets, and you have a lot of money? :D Maybe you also want to play Heroes with a 5k entry fee? :D
Kostyan, I haven't considered myself a top player for a long time, and there's nothing for me to do at the CIS Championship as a player.
I would easily contribute 3,000-5,000 (consider it a regular buy-in for a poker table), but I simply don't have the desire or interest to play Heroes anymore!
And of course, if I were to go to the CIS Championship, I would add another 1500 to the buy-in without hesitation. I'd sit sober for a day, what's the big deal? :D

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