Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
Прошу прощения у Arandor-а. Я слишком резко отреагировал. Просто очень люблю спорт. Извини...[/SIZE]
New here? I'm Roha — want a quick tour?
:) Nowizard, what does the authenticity of the writings have to do with it?
Firstly, we will never be able to verify this, and secondly, there is no need to verify it. What has come down to us from the history of both Christianity and paganism provides a quite complete picture of both.
I am referring to a much deeper antiquity, about which there is also considerable evidence. In addition, many Orthodox holidays continue to be interpreted in their pre-Christian equivalent: Krasnaya Gorka, Pokrov, Sretenskaya, Maslenitsa, etc.
Ivan Kupala has remained Ivan Kupala:)
As for the antiquity – you know, the golden calf was created by people as early as three thousand years before the birth of Christ, if not more;)
As for history – any chronicle was written under the guidance of the authorities of the respective country. Don't confuse history and reality. In Aztec "history textbooks," the Spanish are pale-faced demons who came with fire and steel, while in Spanish textbooks, the colonists are great explorers. Read Soviet history textbooks – it turns out that before the Soviet era, there was nothing but worldwide evil:D Bourgeoisie and imperialists!:)
Regarding antiquity... If you've read about Arkaim in the Chelyabinsk region, which is older than the Egyptian pyramids, I think you'd agree that our ancestors deserve to be called a civilized people with a very accurate calendar and an observatory that amazes modern scientists. And this was a period of paganism, thousands of years before Christianity was introduced in Russia. This is a genuine history because it is confirmed by facts, and as for the so-called chronicles, I agree that they were "kept" at all times by those in power. So, much in the history not only of Russia but of the world in general can be questioned. For example, the well-known chronicle history of Russia begins with the Baptism, as if before that, Russia was something primitive and incoherent. This suggests your analogy with Soviet history;)
It is clear that a "new broom" sweeps away everything that was before it, and Soviet ideologists are by no means the pioneers in this.
Now, about the pagans. God in any religion is something higher, perfect. Even in Buddhism, where gods are not immortal, nevertheless, the deities represent a foundation, an example to follow. In paganism, there are always many gods, and they are all perfect. Isn't that too many perfections?:) Moreover, they practically do not differ from people - except perhaps in strength and immortality. They marry, divorce, kill each other (despite their immortality?:D), plot intrigues, cheat, are jealous, and take revenge. How can a group of people who are completely incompatible with each other maintain balance in the world? With such gods, I think the end of the world would have come long ago.:)
Paganism is the most ancient monotheistic religion. In paganism, there is one God, and He is perfect. Since the world is that which God gave birth to from Himself, then the world is God, and everything in the world is gods. For example: the elements are gods, people are gods, animals are gods, but they are not Gods as the origin of the world; they are God's offspring. The fact that gods marry, weave intrigues, and so on, is the descriptive part of the actual lives of people-gods, serving not so much a narrative or functional purpose, but a moral one.
Paganism is surprisingly simple and universal. For example, any pagan from Europe would understand a pagan from an African tribe. In paganism, there is no concept of proselytism, i.e., imposing one's belief on another under the guise of the truth. Accordingly, there is no enmity on religious grounds or religious hatred. This is a historical fact. There is not a single known instance in history where pagan tribes fought each other on religious grounds. Everyone respected the gods of others simply because they saw their own gods in them, only called by different names. And this is also because all these gods are essentially the birth of the One God.
Now let's take the history of the Jewish religion. The entire Bible is simply filled with wars specifically on religious grounds. After a 40-year journey of the Jews, Moses was told to destroy all the inhabitants (indigenous) of that land where there is "milk and honey." Nothing left to say, what a humane "god".
All the psalms speak only of the ungodly who do not know God and call upon God Himself to punish them for this.
What is the result? Constant wars on religious grounds, religious hatred, intolerance, the imposition of the "true" faith by fire and sword, the Inquisition, the fight against heretics, schisms, etc. and so on. The words of Jesus come to mind: "by their fruits you shall know them." Well? These are the fruits. And what do we blame all this on? Of course, on the "scapegoat," the enemy of the human race, the devil. This, it turns out, is his dirty work, and not at all those who "rightly" honor God.
In all this is pride, self-indulgence, and self-praise. "We are right, it's just that the devil never sleeps..."
It only seems to me that this is a logical consequence of the fact that man was "created" by God, and not "born." This is how "slaves" act, not "sons." In all of this is low, hypocritical, animal SLAVERY.
Hmm... have you actually "read" the scriptures yourself? If you had, you wouldn't be asking for a direct link to the passage where Jews were commanded to destroy everyone living in the promised land. They didn't do that, and they were "punished" for it. So, the scripture speaks of faithfulness to God through the extermination of "unbelievers" from within their community. This is the Old Testament. And what about the New Testament? On the one hand, it says "love one another," but on the other hand, it says "the world lies in evil." If "the world lies in evil," then it is not part of God, who cannot be evil by definition. So how can you love one another in a world that "lies in evil"?
As for orgies, ritual sacrifices, and the killing of enemies, if you look at history, there is plenty of this "goodness" in Christianity as well. I would like to note that Christianity was persecuted by pagans for these very human sacrifices, according to Roman historians, i.e., pagans believed that Christians drank the blood of infants, and this was unacceptable to them!!
You'll say that's slander? Yes, it's slander, so why not assume that the orgies, sacrifices, and other abominations attributed to pagans are also slander?
You can read about the so-called "devil's daily work" in the Apostle Peter, which says that "the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." Interestingly, where does he walk? In what dimensions? Perhaps it's a metaphor, and the devil is the dark side of a person's soul? His base passions and delusions? It's just very convenient to talk about "temptations," attributing one's own mistakes to an outside person, supposedly inciting them to commit these mistakes. That is, there is a cunning self-justification in this, which is harmful because a person does not learn from his mistakes, but instead becomes even more wary of the world, looking for the machinations of this very "outsider."
To be more precise, this "command" was given to Joshua, since Moses did not enter the Promised Land. If I'm not mistaken, it's in the Book of Joshua; feel free to read it if you're interested. On the contrary, the Jews were captivated by the local women, so they did not fulfill the "commandment" but instead began to mix with the Ammonites.
I'm not blaming God for human sins. It just seems that way to you because I allow myself to question the "Holy Scripture." I'm simply saying that the "Scripture" is sacred only when you agree with its consistent development of the relationship between man and God. I presented two paths: pagan and Jewish (Christian, Muslim). For me, the pagan path is more logical and simpler because I believe that God created the world from himself, and the world is part of God, not his creation. Besides, paganism is organically suited to man; it involves understanding God through nature, people, and phenomena, and thus striving for divine perfection. There is no antagonism towards God in paganism because God is all-powerful and perfect, and only man can comprehend this perfection.
In the Jewish path, it's the opposite. God has an antagonist – the devil, a former angel whom God cast into the abyss. But what's more, God decided to make this "fallen" being his tool for "forging" a slave out of man, that is, a creature obedient to his will. It turns out that as soon as God created man, he immediately began to subject him to trials(!). This seems illogical for a loving being. "Love believes all things, hopes all things...it does not seek its own...love never fails." Did this God inspire the apostle Paul to write these amazing words, who, having just created man, immediately subjects him to tests of loyalty and sends a serpent to tempt him (if this serpent is the devil, then it certainly could not have crawled out of the abyss without God's will; if it's an ordinary "talking" snake, then it could not have spoken without God's will)? Something doesn't add up. I'm not "blaming" the scripture; it's blaming itself by describing God as cruel, unfair, and suspicious. If God is like that, then what should man be like?
I read about "the blood of infants" in the History of the Church, published by the Moscow Patriarchate:)
Regarding free will. Man has one will, which is also free. And this will can make mistakes, desire good, curse, believe, doubt, love, hate, strive for perfection, "go with the flow" – whatever happens, happens.
Let's start with the fact that Judaism is not the original religion of the Jews. Before Judaism, the Jews were just like the surrounding tribes – polytheists. The adoption of a single faith can be attributed to the time of Kings David and Solomon. There are mentions of things from the preceding period that contradict monotheism. For example: the quote I already provided, stating that "Man has become like us," mentions of Abraham's sacred grove, Moses' burning bush, and the golden calf.
So, it's foolish to say that Judaism is the original faith of the Jews. They simply eradicated most of their pagan customs (but not all).
Therefore, paganism can be considered a much older religion.
Regarding the non-violence of the Orthodox Church, read the history of Siberia, the period from the late 19th to early 20th centuries. There, forced conversions of indigenous people to Orthodoxy were common. And what about the struggle against the Old Believers? And the intolerance towards other religions?