Forum — Tournament Committee

Rabe

11 years ago

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fil0sof

Excellent point!

Let's decide – either we're for a pure SoD (Shades of Darkness) without restrictions, or for tournament rules. And in the second case, it makes much more sense to simply remove the forbidden, useless objects.

But the 4 must-have artifacts, I don't understand the point of playing without them...

You, colleague, are wrong. Hwrulz doesn't remove objects; it changes them. And people who are against it argue that (besides "I want a true SoD") that there are too many windmills and leprechauns on the map. I partially agree with them, but I'm still in favor of the checkbox.
We definitely shouldn't remove anything because that would create an imbalance, at least in terms of those potential skeletons.

fil0sof

11 years ago

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Okay, I didn't quite express myself correctly. Yes, I agree that completely removing them isn't ideal because it reduces the number of corpses for creating ghouls and skeletons. So, by "removing," I meant what these checkboxes do: replacing them with equivalent objects.
And, in my opinion, it's better to have many windmills and leprechauns than many useless objects.

In reply to fil0sof

KobRa_RR

11 years ago

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fil0sof

Okay, I didn't quite express myself correctly. Yes, I agree that completely eliminating something isn't good because it reduces the number of creatures for splitting and skeletons. So, by "eliminating," I meant what these checkboxes do: replacing them with equivalent objects.
And, in my opinion, it's better to have many mills and leprechauns than many useless objects.

It's better to make objects useful. Some people want to dig for the Grail, so let them dig, even if it takes 111 turns. If you don't put it in a tower or a conflux, it's not very effective. (It's not overpowered.) And so on, the fewer restrictions, the better, in my opinion.

In reply to KobRa_RR

fil0sof

11 years ago

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KobRa_RR

It's better to make objects useful. For example, people want to dig for the Grail, so let them dig, even if it takes 111 turns. If you don't place it in a Tower or a Conflux, it's not very effective anyway (not overpowered). And so on, the fewer restrictions, the better, in my opinion.

I completely agree with that, but we're discussing the current rules here. If they remove the restriction on the Grail, which would be great in itself, it would naturally make sense to bring back the obelisks. But right now... And the same goes for other useless objects. Either make them useful, i.e., remove the restrictions, or remove them from the map. What's the point of an intermediate option – the object exists, but you can't use it?

Lider1

11 years ago

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Cobra is FOR digging up the Grail.
Stinger also wrote about this earlier.
Bishop in the HeroesWorld rules thread also expressed support.

And I'll join the veterans. We're not exactly noobs in the game :D.

Overall, I think this issue should be put to the next referendum. Similar to the blue fairy option.

In reply to Lider1

Rabe

11 years ago

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And if in some other way our geniuses Baratroch and Wizard can programmatically regulate the work of the Grail (it is placed ONLY from week 4 or Not placed in Conflux and Tower), then the issue will be resolved positively for everyone.

fil0sof

11 years ago

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It seems to me that "not placed in Conflux and Tower" would be unfair to those towns. Couldn't we somehow make it so that it is placed only with the money and creature growth? Without revealing the map and learning all spells accordingly.

Overall yes, it would be good to put this to a referendum. And all the "default checkboxes" as well

In reply to fil0sof

Sanin

11 years ago

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Currently, digging for the Grail is allowed starting from level 221. I suggested lowering the threshold a long time ago – let’s allow digging for it from level 131 or 141, for example. However, this mainly concerns HL+U templates; on smaller templates, there’s a higher chance that it will be within reach, and even on maps like CM or Balance, it will play a significant role.

In reply to Sanin

Rabe

11 years ago

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By the way, I was just thinking about the cancellation of the Grail, not knowing the whole story behind it. After all, it's the best thing for dealing with the situation where a game drags on. In real-time strategy games, there are almost always objects that are designed to "put an end" to the game if it reaches a stalemate... a kind of trigger. I remember in the old, good (probably a contemporary of Heroes) Age of Empires - you build a Wonder, and that's it - the task is to survive.

Iamsamstan

11 years ago

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And by the way, why is Hillfort useless? You build up the corresponding level grade in the Castle, and grading is allowed in the rules) Now, the Cartographer is harder of course) He can't really be used as such, and the Keymaster's tents are just a nightmare) They do cause imbalance sometimes—for example, once my Dragon Utopia was closed while my opponent had plenty of them—but that doesn't decide it every time. I think everyone should avoid overanalyzing this topic too much)

In reply to Iamsamstan

fil0sof

11 years ago

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2.5. Visiting Mapmakers and Fort on the Hill is prohibited.

In the current version of the rules, there is no mention of castle levels. It simply states that visiting is prohibited.

In reply to Iamsamstan

Rabe

11 years ago

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Iamsamstan

Well, by the way, why is Hillfort considered useless? I built it in the castle, upgraded it to the corresponding level, and upgrading it is mentioned in the rules.

:eek: Guys!!! So, are Hwraulz really not necessary?
I'm already afraid to imagine what rules each of you has in mind.

Dirty_Player

11 years ago

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This was a test version of the rules that didn't work out.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Rabe

11 years ago

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Dirty_Player

This was a test version of the rules that didn't work out.

Yes, the rules change, but you need to play according to the current rules today. And, it's precisely because of such "small things" that I personally like HWrules (without checkboxes).
But many still resist, as if supporting "sometimes it's okay if you really need to" or "if you're not caught, you're not a thief," "oh, who cares, rules are written so that they can be broken"...

I remember, a long time ago, there was a funny rule that you could only build level 2 structures in a captured native town. It was supposed to reduce the effect of doubling production. I personally remember it well.

In reply to Rabe

scorp

11 years ago

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Rabe

Actually, I was wondering, not knowing the whole story behind the Grail's removal.
...

how about a ban from/for (underline the appropriate one) cheaters?

if you really want to play with the Grail or some other custom rules, why not find a suitable opponent and agree with them?!

now, HDmod with passwords seems to be more protected, maybe it's worth adjusting the rule for the Grail, adding some intrigue to it, let's say not from date 131/141, but from the number of obelisks visited, depending on how many there are on a specific map, if their number is not the same (e.g., 10+ ???)

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