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#17
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Of course, they might have killed everyone (although I don't believe it). But the question is, WHAT WOULD WE HAVE DONE in the place of this knight? I wouldn't have killed them. IMHO, I wouldn't have. It's a matter of our morality... although, I can imagine how evil these knights were after wandering through the desert... maybe I would have become savage too.
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#19
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I would like to point out that Richard was nicknamed the Lionheart because he ordered the execution of two thousand prisoners when the Saracens failed to meet his demands. The hero of legends is a ruthless barbarian, whose actions horrified even the Saracens (against whose "infidelity" all these famous pilgrimages were directed).
I agree with Alexey that if we lived during the Crusades, we would not hesitate to kill in the name of faith, the holy throne, Christ, and all the saints. The question arises: where is the Gospel in all this? And what kind of faith is this?
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
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"So much has gone
and little is new"

David Bowie
In reply to Vihja Drow
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#20
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Laura Vita;76325
I wouldn't let anyone harm a child. I'd rescue them, no matter the risks. And if we're talking about crusades against Urgash, I wouldn't participate in them. It's not my thing. Crusades, attempts to impose one's faith – these are all ideas of the Light, and I am as dark as the moonless night. The Dark ones live as they please and don't interfere with others doing the same.
But are they really the "Light," if they do such things?
Ganymed
I'd like to point out that Richard was nicknamed "Lionheart" because he ordered the execution of two thousand prisoners when the Saracens failed to meet his demands. The hero of legends is a ruthless barbarian, whose actions even horrified the Saracens (against whose "infidelity" all those famous pilgrimages were directed).
I agree with Alexey that if we lived during the time of the Crusades, we would kill without hesitation in the name of faith, the holy throne, Christ, and all the saints. The question arises, where is the Gospel in all this? And what kind of faith is this?
Ganymed, even considering the fact that I would live during the time of the Crusades, I wouldn't kill children, but I would stand in the ranks of the army of Alexander Nevsky, which was three times smaller than the crusader army, and defend my native land. Alex, yes, I am writing and saying all this while sitting at a computer, but let it be known that I have more than once gotten into trouble with high school students when I stood up for third-graders. And not just me. And you know, it's not that difficult! Just don't, sitting at a computer, not seeing the world and the people who live in it, say that all people are born as cutthroats. The Crusaders killed not because they were evil creatures, driven mad by a long journey through the desert, but because they believed they were doing the right thing, spreading the word of God in this way. Surely you know that at that time some people didn't even consider other people to be people. For a Catholic, a heretic and the devil were practically synonyms. So don't jump to conclusions.
Бог есть любовь
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#21
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I didn't claim that the Crusaders were evil. I was simply asked a question, and I gave an answer. As a participant in the First Crusade, I would have killed prisoners without hesitation. And most likely, I wouldn't even have bothered taking them prisoner; I would have killed them immediately. And not only because they weren't human, and not only because I was tired. But also because that's how I understood the world.
However, being killed by a high school student and your comrades because they thought you were possessed by the devil are two different things.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
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#22
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It is impossible to predict, it all depends on the specific situation. I will answer this way: if you find yourself in such a situation in real life, only then will you be able to answer this question... And what you are saying now is nonsense. It's the same as asking if you would be able to kill a person who killed your entire family...
Герой в каждом из нас...:rolleyes:

"Истинно могуч тот, кто побеждает самого себя"
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#23
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most likely, I would have saved him =))
although, I don't know how I would have acted back then... many factors influence this...

Be strong. Believe
In reply to Geksorin
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#24
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Geksorin;76523
It's impossible to predict, it all depends on the situation.
I'll answer like this: if you find yourself in such a situation in real life, only then will you be able to answer this question...
What you're saying now is nonsense. It's the same as asking if you could kill a person who killed your entire family...
This is different! He killed my family, and I'll do everything I can to get him! BUT he is guilty! And he is NOT a child!
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#25
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As an atheist, I don't believe in any kind of purification rituals, etc. I would try to save them; compromising with my conscience is uninteresting.
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
In reply to Nowizard
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#26
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Nowizard;76513


Ganymede, even considering the fact that I would have lived during the time of the Crusades, I wouldn't kill children. Instead, I would stand in the ranks of Alexander Nevsky's army, which was three times smaller than the Crusader army, and defend my homeland. Alex, yes, I am writing and saying all this while sitting at a computer, but let it be known that I have been beaten up by high school students more than once when I stood up for third-graders. And not just me. And you know, it's not that difficult! You just don't need to, while sitting at a computer, not seeing the world and the people who live in it, say that all people are born as cutthroats. The Crusaders killed not because they were evil creatures, driven mad by a long journey through the desert, but because they believed they were doing the right thing by spreading the word of God in this way. Surely you know that at that time, some people didn't even consider other people to be people. For a Catholic, a heretic and the devil were practically synonyms. So don't rush to conclusions.

And how can you know who would have been who and who would have killed whom?
If faith forces you to see the devil in another person, then to hell with such faith!!!!!!!!
Nowizard, too pompous, in my opinion.
God creates man, and man kills, spreading the Word of God? Personally, I wouldn't write this to justify anyone.
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
-----------------------------
"So much has gone
and little is new"

David Bowie
In reply to Geksorin
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#27
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Geksorin;76523
It's impossible to predict, it all depends on the situation.
I'll answer like this: if you find yourself in such a situation in real life, only then will you be able to answer this question...
And what you're saying now is nonsense. It's the same as asking if you could kill a person who killed your entire family...
I agree 100%. It's easy to sit behind a computer and write about how you'd throw yourself under a knife to protect a child. But half of you, if you were in a tight spot, wouldn't just kill the child, but...
Stop talking nonsense.
Без пафоса и найденых через поисковик цитат: Ухахахахаха...:smile40:
#28
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The first commandment: Thou shalt not kill...
Therefore, it was not faith, but a game of politicians, and true faith is something completely different...
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#29
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The scariest thing is that it was precisely faith... politicians didn't kill, it was those who had faith who killed...
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
-----------------------------
"So much has gone
and little is new"

David Bowie
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#30
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and all the most terrible, long, and bloody wars were fought precisely because of faith...
Я вернулась... :smile24:
Ну что, не ждали? :smile08:
Пусть за нас говорит сталь! :smile13:
In reply to Geksorin
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#31
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Geksorin;76523
It is impossible to predict such a thing; everything depends on the situation itself.
I will answer like this: if you find yourself in such a situation in real life, only then will you be able to answer this question...
And what you are saying now is nonsense. It's the same as asking if you would be able to kill a person who killed your entire family...
I don't know how I would act, but I definitely wouldn't kill him. Even if I had the full opportunity to do so. To be honest, if I had the power and means, I would disfigure him and tattoo "murderer" on his forehead. Let him live with humiliation and the realization that I could easily have killed him. Maybe it's cruel, but that's how I feel about my family.
Agilist
As an atheist, I don't believe in any kind of purification, etc. I would try to save him; making a deal with my conscience is uninteresting.
What does atheism have to do with it?:)
Ganymed
How can we know who would have been who and who killed whom?
If faith makes you see the devil in another person, then to hell with such faith!!!!!!!!
Nowizard, too pompous, IMHO.
God creates man, and man kills, carrying the Word of God? Personally, I wouldn't write this as an excuse for anyone.
And who said that I approve of this? It's pointless to deny the fact; fanatics have always existed. Not just in religion.
DarkMavr
I agree 100%. It's easy to sit at a computer and write about how you would rush to protect a child with a knife. But half of you, if your back is against the wall, would not only kill a child, but...
Stop talking nonsense.
I agree, but I'll say the same to you - stop talking nonsense. Yes, all this is written while sitting at a computer, but you don't know anyone here; maybe some of them have already been in a similar situation, even if it didn't involve risking their lives.
Ganymed
The scariest thing is that it was faith... politicians didn't kill; those who had faith killed...
Here it is, brainwashing in all its glory. These Knights didn't consider Muslims to be offspring of the devil from birth.
Бог есть любовь
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#32
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Of course, in this discussion, we all act like we're good people! But in reality, if we were in the crusader's shoes, we would have a completely different mindset. Therefore, it's pointless to discuss what people from the 21st century would do in such a situation. Naturally, a crusader in such a situation, like most warriors, would hardly think about who his prisoners were. This boy might grow up and take revenge later, which is why wars often involved killing children.

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