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A conversation recently took place in ICQ with Mizrael. I didn't attach any importance to it and certainly didn't want to bring it here, as it was a private correspondence. But some comrades convinced me otherwise. The key fact was that he, due to his position, is a public figure, and therefore the community should know certain aspects of his behavior, as his activities will have an impact on it.

I ask for your forgiveness, Mizrael, as a person, for my writing is directed only against your alter ego, namely the judge. I am merely presenting information for public judgment, and if my action turns out to be unworthy, let the public condemn me.

And now the story. By the way, all of it is on Twitch, if it hasn't been deleted yet (the video is only stored there for a week). Around 11 PM Moscow time, I decided to play, about which I posted info on the forum. Already around 12 AM, Mizrael contacted me and suggested we start.
Here I will describe my game to make it clearer. I had no restarts left and had to play what was given. And what was given (I was playing Castle) was 2 Dragon Fly Hives near the castle, and if you don't count another external dwelling of monks, and a portal found only on the second week, and even then so far away that it wasn't taken from any perspective, there was nothing else. Until day 113, I only ran around with 4 heroes (and this is on Jebus Cross), because there wasn't a single chest on the respawn. On day 114, I finally found two chests, one of which gave an artifact, and the other turned out to be only 1000 gold. So I could only afford a seventh hero on the 7th day )). In conditions of severe poverty and lack of army to take the Dragon Fly Hives, I decided to level up a mage, which turned out to be the only correct decision. Thanks to Ciele's good leveling and the lucky artifacts giving +3 to knowledge and +4 to spell power, she managed to break through the upgraded Minotaurs, take the Naga Sash, and on day 117 finally get Angels. Warriors wouldn't have managed there. However, troops are still needed for the center, and double mana for Ciele wouldn't hurt either, and Slow needs to be relearned because you won't get far with 3 Angels and 25 Griffins. And that's where problems with Slow arose. The spell wasn't in any castle or scrolls, and I had to run for 2 days to a shrine at the other end of the respawn, but what can you do. In the end, I planned to exit only on day 124, where scout hero Damacon was placed preemptively. Our exits to the center with the opponent were close. On day 124, Tazar emerges from the fog, destroys my Town Gate, kills scout hero Damacon, runs to the castle and stops 4-5 tiles away from it, next to Ciele who was on 1 Angel after the Dragon Fly Hive, a step away from the road.

Now again for clarity. The opponent didn't make it to my castle and stopped near Ciele, thinking of attacking her or taking my main, where Tamika was sitting on a split with 2 Angels, and under him was a scout hero with all the meat. He had an either/or situation. If he attacked Ciele (-141) - then he wouldn't have time to kill Tamika. In the end, he attacks Tamika, who buys back with the loss of 1 Angel. Then he attacks the main, and kills all the army and the scout hero there with insignificant losses for himself, BUT Tazar spends all his 10 mana. He doesn't have enough movement points to sit in the castle, and apparently due to lack of money in the castle, he only buys Pikemen, the Monks and Cavaliers remain. He probably didn't suspect that Ciele was the main, because I only revealed her once on day 114, when her stats were still weak, while in the tavern Tamika was visible on the last turn with 2 Angels. The next day, Tamika buys back in a secondary town and delivers the Angel to the main, Ciele with 2 Angels and a few Monks retakes the main and sits in it. The castle had already been upgraded by me. I decided that if he attacks, Ciele will win (with 15 spell power against Tazar with no mana and 7 spell power). She has Mass Slow and expert Water Magic with Ice Bolt dealing 350 damage. If he turns back to the center, I'll catch up, outmaneuver him while he's without magic, and escape. He couldn't transfer troops - I had destroyed the scout heroes that were on support. He attacks. Results: Ciele remains on 1 Angel and 150 mana, Tazar buys back on 1 Hydra, 3-4 Griffins, and about 12-14 Cavaliers.

It was 5 AM and Mizrael offered to save, which is natural. Today I write to him in the chat and we have the following conversation:

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:54)
Hi, free?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:54)
hello

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:55)
shall we continue?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:55)
well, not really in the mood

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:55)
why's that?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:56)
can you guess?

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:56)
)) Not much prospect?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:56)
lol

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:56)
okay, fine, forget it then

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:56)
haven't they told you about gaming ethics?

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:57)
oh really, explain

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:57)
what exactly are you talking about?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:57)
5 AM, everything is clear, to speed up the process I take out your garrison faster, even dropped extra resources to go faster and sleep

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:57)
and what?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:58)
you latched onto the fact that I have no more mana and went gogogo

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:58)
forget it, short

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:58)
I'm amazed at you, what logic

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:58)
it's normal human logic

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:58)
so I was supposed to surrender the game because you imagined something?

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:58)
pff

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:59)
I didn't imagine anything, I decided to save us time )

Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:59)
but you apparently decided this was your chance and pulled out all the stops )

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:59)
I play to win, if you play for other purposes - tell your opponent about it beforehand, especially since I wrote to you that we're playing for rating

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:00)
so you need a victory? no problem, want me to give you 2 wins

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:00)
you lost that game, because you played worse

Toganash M (10.04.2014 12:01)
played worse, holy shit, how can you judge that when 1: you didn't see my respawn, and secondly, you lost it

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:02)
why would I need your respawn if I wiped out your army

Toganash M (10.04.2014 12:02)
and in the end you lost, and statements like "I wanted to sleep" are just clumsy excuses

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:02)
those are facts, friend

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:02)
5 AM, and that's after a work day doing double shift

Toganash M (10.04.2014 12:03)
I'm not your friend and never was, and your personal life doesn't concern me, why are you whining to me, I don't write about my problems

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:03)
lol )

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:04)
I'm telling you facts, he talks about whining )))

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:04)
what have you imagined?

Toganash M (10.04.2014 12:04)
one fact - you threw the game there, and as for playing with you, I've drawn my conclusions, bye

Mizrael (10.04.2014 12:04)
I've also drawn my conclusions about playing with you, good luck

Allow me some comments. At the beginning of the conversation, I didn't quite understand why he didn't want to continue (I haven't developed extrasensory abilities yet) and therefore wrote the following:

Toganash M (10.04.2014 11:56)
okay, fine, forget it then
Out of respect for the opponent, I didn't push (maybe there were reasons)

But what followed stung a little (I saw no reason to hear such a thing directed at me):
Mizrael (10.04.2014 11:56)
haven't they told you about gaming ethics?
But then I pulled myself together and asked what the matter was anyway (maybe I had inadvertently done something that could have offended the opponent).
But the subsequent explanations floored me.

So this is how I understand the situation:
1. The opponent himself contacts me for a game, but here - ATTENTION: I should inquire about his well-being (whether he slept well, didn't work too much). - This is required by gaming ethics.

2. After the opponent gives a non-game related reason for his incorrect actions (though who am I to talk, sorry. After all, it was he who, guided by humane considerations, decided: "to save us time". And it doesn't matter that I wrote to him in ICQ at the beginning that we were playing for rating, and even more so that victory is more important to me than our time. I just don't yet understand the universal human aspirations of my opponent, who decided that this would be better). And I also forgot about his catastrophic fatigue and lack of sleep at 5 AM. How could I neglect the guidance on humane treatment of opponents. After all, it was he who, despite all the difficulties and his unbearable condition, gave me a chance to play with him. And why did this happen? I'll tell you: because I didn't fulfill point 1 (namely, I didn't inquire about his well-being). This is what violating gaming ethics leads to (I'd like to see this clause, I guess the esteemed Wic forgot to include it in the rules). So, taking all these facts into account, I should have, according to gaming ethics, ended the game by admitting my defeat. Moreover, and this is point 3.

3. According to the opponent, I actually played worse. After all, he came to my respawn, killed all the army on the scout hero (if the army had been on Ciele, I wonder what he would have come up with then, he still only had mana for 2 casts), so he is better. And the fact that he later threw it all away, well, he already wrote about that. The reason for that was the first two points and my low desire to win, which is why I allowed myself to latch onto the lack of mana on his main. That was indeed a dirty move on my part.

Conclusions: According to my opponent's gaming ethics, it is necessary to inquire about his well-being before a game, and if he starts losing, then: if there were moments from point 1 that give him the right to leniency, take them into account and admit defeat. If there was no violation of gaming ethics, then evaluate your game up to the point when the opponent started losing, and if in his opinion he played better, then again admit defeat.

P/S: Forgive me, Mizrael, for such a hyperbolic expression of thoughts, all this is written not against the person Mizrael, but in the name of the judge Mizrael. For I think that judging is a calling and a corresponding way of thinking, actions, principles. I did not see them, I did not even see cold and calculating consistency (otherwise how to explain linking gaming ethics with what he wrote, and how the first two non-game reasons plus his statement about a lack of interest in the result of guilt correlate with the last phrases, like "you still lost, because you played worse". That is, I see a clear absence of judging ethics and a logical chain-interconnection in his statements.

P/S: I could be wrong, so if the majority speaks out against me, I am ready to reconsider my views, but the older I get, the harder it is to do. And I confess, there was one more small reason, besides outrage at the judge's behavior: after the words "have you heard about gaming ethics," I was visited by an angry feeling that the opponent puts himself above others. He allows himself to talk about some moral rules. He could have simply said he didn't feel like playing and then surrendered the game, because he didn't want to drag it out at such a late (early) hour. And then there would have been no need to write about some violated moral-ethical norms. Many who have played with me know that I never insist on finishing a game, and I don't even post many games that my opponents throw. And we could have just parted ways, but no, he had to say that he was better, regardless.

Haven without arguments will cease to be the Haven that we all love.

I can't stop laughing! Any game – be it football, hockey, or online games – is primarily built on the mistakes of opponents, especially when the players have similar stats.
I understand that Togana was criticized for not moving one cell closer to replenish his mana, which was his own fault))))))))))))) I'm speechless – here's a fitting smiley:smile52:

Just like Rebellious, and we have such referees))))))))))))

However, I was quite annoyed... Just watch the stream, and everything will become clear. It's 5 AM, I haven't slept for almost a day, so naturally, I want to finish the game, especially since everything is clear. I honestly thought my opponent would type "gg" before the end of the battle when my main unit attacked his stronghold. But no, he's clinging to the fact that he spent all his mana... He could either retreat to finish off the center, or replenish his mana and return at the end of the week, but that takes time, and I really want to sleep now :) I attack, and I just need to finish off the mage a little more, okay. In reality, I played better, as I wrote. What's the complaint, and what does judging have to do with it?

P.S. I didn't have any complaints about Toganashu; I just didn't want to continue. Why invent something that doesn't exist?

The problem isn't that I didn't finish the game; I personally don't enjoy finishing saves, but I always do it if I have time and my opponent wants me to, and I never run away. The issue is that I was accused of violating gaming ethics, but I still don't understand how I did it. P.S.: And who stopped him from saving earlier? I didn't object. I'm primarily upset that I was accused of violating some rules, then told that I was playing worse, despite my opponent losing, and all of this was done by someone wearing the mantle of a judge. And he didn't just do it; he did it condescendingly – that's what upset me. No matter how good you are or how bad your opponent is, if you enter into a competition with them, be respectful. That's the main gaming ethic. Moreover, I didn't persuade anyone, nor did I even suggest playing with me. But still, I ended up being an unskilled and unscrupulous person. How could I have done that:smile07:

However, he was clearly upset... Just watch the stream, and everything will become clear. It's 5 AM, I've been awake for almost a day, and of course, I want to finish the game, especially since everything is clear. I honestly thought my opponent would type "gg" before the end of the battle when my main attacked his stronghold. But no, he's clinging to the fact that I spent all his mana... I could go finish off the center, or I could replenish my mana and return at the end of the week, but that takes time, and I really want to sleep :) I attack, and I'm just a little short of finishing off the mage, okay. In reality, I played better, as I wrote. What's the complaint, and what does judging have to do with it?

P.S. I didn't have any complaints about Toganash; I just didn't want to continue. Why make something out of nothing?

You didn't kill his main hero; you were outplayed. What's the problem? Just give up and don't continue:smile54:

From the conversation, it's clear that you don't want to finish the game and are thus preventing the result from being recorded.... And as for being tired, that's just ridiculous!!! Heroes is one of the few games where, even after just one minute of play, you can ask to save and continue later, and do that again and again

I didn't make any claims against Togana, I just didn't want to continue, why invent something that doesn't exist?

Refusing to continue the game = surrendering. Acknowledging defeat and confirming the report in such a situation is what constitutes good sportsmanship. Or, continue the game without making any claims against the opponent.
Taking advantage of a mana advantage is a perfectly legitimate gameplay tactic; where is the ethical issue?

From the conversation, it seems you don't want to finish the game, and in doing so, you're preventing the result from being recorded....

If you read carefully, this isn't about a report at all.

I had a similar situation. My opponent caught a Loshk with a pouch, and my hero was left with 1 angel. But I didn't give up because I had green units in the second tier. My plan was to turn them into gold and use Arcomage to trick him. My opponent, in order to "speed up" the game, attacked me with Loshk, using all his artifacts and the pouch, but without any mana. And, seeing that I was using magic to destroy everything he had, he left with the words, "I would have just stayed in the castle and tried to catch up on the next turn. And we would have been running around like that until someone caught the other. But what you're doing is just nonsense... sorry, I'm not up for this."
If I didn't give up, it means I was counting on something. And a fifty-fold advantage in units doesn't necessarily mean victory. If you think you won, finish the game to the end, or admit defeat, in my opinion.

I completely agree with Toganash. The opponent played very unfairly.

Seriously, what are the complaints about Mizrael as a judge?
And everything else is his personal business.

If you read carefully, the issue here isn't about a report.

I had a similar situation. My opponent caught a unit with a bag of gold, and my hero was left with 1 angel. But I didn't give up because I had green units in the second tier. My plan was to turn them into gold and use Armageddon to trick him. My opponent, to "speed up" the game, attacked me with the unit carrying the bag of gold and all artifacts, but without mana. And, seeing that I was using magic to destroy everything he had, he left with the words, "I would have just stayed in the castle and tried to catch up on the next turn. We would have been running around like that until someone caught the other. But what you're doing is just ridiculous... sorry, I didn't sign up for this."
If I didn't give up, it means I was counting on something. And a fifty-fold advantage in units doesn't equal victory. If you think you won, finish the game to the end, or admit defeat, in my opinion.

In my opinion, this is a question for the judge, especially if he performs such actions and sets examples. How can he judge fairly?:smile19:

Come on, why are you all attacking the guy? He says he didn't sleep much, and he probably didn't know that Toga would play until the very end if there was even a little bit of action, and here there was also Cielka, she's not Deemer (Sergey will understand), but she can also play, as it turned out).
He just needed to submit a report when he didn't want to finish the game, and he had other things to do.

Come on, why are you all attacking the guy? He says he didn't sleep, and probably didn't know that Toga would play until the very end if there's even a little bit of action, and there's also Cielka, she's not Deemer (Sergey will understand), but she can also play, as it turned out).
He just needed to submit a report when he didn't want to finish the game, and he had other things to do.

Ciel was a beast! That's one, and two angels is two.
Just for the record, I won against the captain personally with 1 Efreet Sultan when he invaded my base, and I armored a hero from the dungeon, level 10, ran to the treasury, gathered a bunch of stuff, and won (last Jebus tournament).

I think the problem is that he thought I wouldn't finish the game, and there wouldn't be a result, what nonsense... if you're not going to finish, just give up and confirm.

Ciel, your mom was awesome! That's one, and two angels is two.

Yes, I understand that it's not a folder. There's even a suggestion for two reports there, you should read it!

5 AM, almost a full day without sleep, naturally I want to finish, especially since everything is clear. Honestly, I thought my opponent would type "gg" before the end of the battle, when my main unit attacked his stronghold. But no, he's clinging to the fact that I spent all my mana... I can either go finish off the center, or I can replenish my mana and return at the end of the week, but that takes time, and I really want to sleep :) I'm attacking, I just need to finish off the mage a little more, okay. In reality, I played better, as I wrote.

I imagine a general reasoning like this on the battlefield. He thinks the enemy is weak, so he can use up all the archers' arrows. But then cavalry arrives from the forest, and he has to retreat. Most likely, when that general returns home, he'll be made a soldier at best.