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I've gone through almost the entire thread about the swamp.
There are such heated debates here, it's really touching.
Lider1
Posts from Tactics for the Swamp (Fortress).
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I'm talking about the "Forgetfulness" spell, which for some reason isn't mentioned in this thread.
And in general, it's an extremely useful spell. With it, having only one dragonfly in your squad, you can defeat any ranged unit (except liches and titans) even with Goblins, with almost no losses.
dnaop-wr
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By the way, I hadn't noticed: does expert-level water magic only weaken one serpent at a time during an attack, or all of them? Or does this property only occur on magical terrain?
P.S.: And Azure Dragons aren't for me. I'm increasingly drawn to Shades of Darkness. =)
Azure Dragons and 3 other new types of dragons appeared in Armageddon's Blade, so in Shades of Darkness, they are already flying around (the crystal dragon doesn't fly; it runs).:D
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Dragonflies don't cast Weakness; they apply it automatically to the unit they attack. If a unit casts a spell (instead of taking a turn), then the spell will be area-of-effect only on magical terrain, regardless of the hero's magic level.
Juristis
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Sheer terror. Spending 2 slots, 6 level-ups, 3 days of building time, money and resources on something that gets broken through by Gorgons (sometimes even at [week] 11) or tactics (also not rare) anyway, and you don't need to fight Gnolls after 2 weeks when you have Hydras and such.
Warp_Farseer
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You mean heated debates? ))) Look at the dates of the posts. That was a while ago.
And yes, newbies don't like the Swamp, because they don't know how to play it.
P.S.: Sorry for the off-topic.
The Crystal doesn't fly, it runs:D
Quiet horror. Spending 2 slots, 6 level-ups, 3 days of construction, money and resources on something that is easily defeated by Griffins (sometimes even at level 11) or tactics (which is also not uncommon), and doesn't need to be fought with Gnolls after 2 weeks, having Hydras and other powerful creatures.
For example, you take a neutral Castle with Snakes and Wyverns, where there are unbought slow-moving infantry units. The main hero takes the Castle, followed by a secondary hero, who has learned the "Water Mastery" skill and the "Forgetfulness" spell (by the way, Juristis correctly pointed out that "Forgetfulness" can be in the form of a scroll, and it's not necessary to build 3 levels of magic for this; also, to learn the spell, it's not necessary to build magic in the Castle; I, for example, often don't build a Guild of Mages in my main Castle at all, or I build it if I have a hero with Literacy). There are three paths from the Castle in different directions. On one side, there are infantry units, and on the other two, archers. The hero's main direction is along the path with the infantry. Will you spend another day breaking through/transferring the Snakes to the second hero, and then back, or will you send the second hero with "Forgetfulness" and the unbought infantry?
I understand that this is a specific case, but as practice shows, Heroes is a game of specific situations.
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You can find a use for Water Magic and level 3 spells too (I once broke through a GO with Force Field), but that's not a common occurrence — it's more of a "once in a blue moon" thing, IMHO. For every Scout with Expert Water Magic (zero versatility, by the way — Liches and Elementals don't care), there are 10++ with Haste/Extra Serpents/Expert Armorer. Has anyone here had cases of using it, I mean, intentionally?
On Jebus Cross, it's a real example, it's just that Earth and Air magic are chosen and utilized much more often.
On Jebus Cross, it's a real example, it's just that Earth and Air magic are chosen and utilized much more often.
Warp_Farseer
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I think the point is that, just like with the Water magic skill, playing as Fortress and Inferno requires either more experienced players or players who use unconventional tactics. And, of course, there are players like me who try to learn something from more experienced players. ;) This is just my opinion; I'm not claiming it's the absolute truth, just sharing my thoughts.
Magic in general is a separate issue. It's clear that the vast majority of players use Earth magic. And that's understandable. The Earth school is famous for having the maximum possible number of useful spells. The beauty of this school also lies in the fact that the spells are versatile.
If we're talking about expert-level slowing, which 99.9% of players use, then the Water school makes sense here. Moreover, the ability to neutralize this nuisance is doubled because it can be neutralized both by dispelling and by healing. Of course, we won't get mass haste, and the effect won't be as neutralizing and useful, but we understand that slowing, as well as curses, and other mass effects that are useful for the enemy and harmful to us, we can successfully neutralize. By the way, what will you do with the same mass berserk or, which is often encountered, petrification/paralysis + blindness for one round? :) Or, for example, if the opponent has Titans, Nagas, and 5 master-level creatures + a hero cast? In my opinion, nothing is better than mass dispel in this case.
Double-casting is also common. That is, the opponent defends himself and casts twice in a row, for example, a shield + stone skin on himself or a curse + blindness on us (there are many options). He spends 2 spells, and we dispel everything with 1. Also, if the battle has dragged on, up to 3 useful spells can be cast on the units. And we dispel them all at once. :)
In general, to understand the beauty of the Fire and Water schools, you just need to try playing, setting a taboo on Air and Earth. Maybe then you'll find new tactics, and the schools won't seem so bad anymore. :)
Magic in general is a separate issue. It's clear that the vast majority of players use Earth magic. And that's understandable. The Earth school is famous for having the maximum possible number of useful spells. The beauty of this school also lies in the fact that the spells are versatile.
If we're talking about expert-level slowing, which 99.9% of players use, then the Water school makes sense here. Moreover, the ability to neutralize this nuisance is doubled because it can be neutralized both by dispelling and by healing. Of course, we won't get mass haste, and the effect won't be as neutralizing and useful, but we understand that slowing, as well as curses, and other mass effects that are useful for the enemy and harmful to us, we can successfully neutralize. By the way, what will you do with the same mass berserk or, which is often encountered, petrification/paralysis + blindness for one round? :) Or, for example, if the opponent has Titans, Nagas, and 5 master-level creatures + a hero cast? In my opinion, nothing is better than mass dispel in this case.
Double-casting is also common. That is, the opponent defends himself and casts twice in a row, for example, a shield + stone skin on himself or a curse + blindness on us (there are many options). He spends 2 spells, and we dispel everything with 1. Also, if the battle has dragged on, up to 3 useful spells can be cast on the units. And we dispel them all at once. :)
In general, to understand the beauty of the Fire and Water schools, you just need to try playing, setting a taboo on Air and Earth. Maybe then you'll find new tactics, and the schools won't seem so bad anymore. :)
Lider1
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Leader, which castle do noobs usually prefer to play with? :) Dungeon or Castle?
Castle and Rampart. I upgraded archers and started playing. Very simple cities to play with.
Dungeon is stronger, in my opinion, but you need to know how to fight with Trogols, without losing them unnecessarily.
And Swamp will give you 12 Golems at the start, and you'll win. That's why newbies don't like it. (Although Thazar can only win this way).
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With the Tower, it's even easier – I immediately upgraded the archers and went straight ahead, but only along the path.
Warp_Farseer
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Castle and Rampart. Upgraded archers and moved on. Very simple cities to play with.
Dungeon is, in my opinion, stronger, but you need to know how to fight with troglodytes there, without losing them senselessly.
And with the Swamp, 12 gnolls will come at the start, and you'll win. That's why newbies don't like it. (Although, Thazar wins easily).
And about the elves, you know:), it's not always the case that you get at least 6 basic basilisk shooters at the start, and there's no point in upgrading if you have less. Although, to be honest, upgrading 50 centaurs might be even better.
In any case, I agree that the attack power of the Rampart at the start is indeed considered one of the most serious.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention. :) I only play at 200%. :)
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But when upgrading archers, you might end up facing cavalry with a Castle.
Warp_Farseer
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Well, building a Castle isn't always possible, I agree. :) I presented an ideal scenario – what you try to achieve by any means necessary.
Still, based on my gaming experience, the main problem for Cavaliers + Castle in the first week is wood. We need 5+10+20+10=55 wood and 1000+2000+2000+5000+2500+5000=17500 gold to implement the plan. If we're lucky and there are 3 wood piles at the lumber mill, we get an average of 3*8=24 wood from them + 2*6=12 wood from the lumber mill by the end of the week. In total, we are guaranteed to get 36 wood. In principle, with a more or less favorable situation, finding the remaining 9 wood and scraping together 17500 gold is theoretically possible. The main issue here is a continuous flow of money, increasing towards the end of the week. Any money-generating hero can help with this, again, if we're lucky.
In general, it's a matter of luck. =) Before the game, be sure to visit the Swan Pond at your home. :)\
P.S.: The problem is that when you manage to implement the plan, there isn't always enough money on day 121 to buy an additional hero and 6 Cavaliers.
Still, based on my gaming experience, the main problem for Cavaliers + Castle in the first week is wood. We need 5+10+20+10=55 wood and 1000+2000+2000+5000+2500+5000=17500 gold to implement the plan. If we're lucky and there are 3 wood piles at the lumber mill, we get an average of 3*8=24 wood from them + 2*6=12 wood from the lumber mill by the end of the week. In total, we are guaranteed to get 36 wood. In principle, with a more or less favorable situation, finding the remaining 9 wood and scraping together 17500 gold is theoretically possible. The main issue here is a continuous flow of money, increasing towards the end of the week. Any money-generating hero can help with this, again, if we're lucky.
In general, it's a matter of luck. =) Before the game, be sure to visit the Swan Pond at your home. :)\
P.S.: The problem is that when you manage to implement the plan, there isn't always enough money on day 121 to buy an additional hero and 6 Cavaliers.
Juristis
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Definitely an Ariputra).
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A Castle for true pros. But that doesn't mean it's weak. For example, in this thread, some forum users are vehemently arguing that the Fortress is a weak Castle, and that a player using the Fortress on low and medium difficulty maps can be easily defeated. I disagree. For example, I recently played on a low difficulty map, and the first neutral Castle I found was a Barbarian one. I simply built an army of Dragonflies, Wyverns, and Thunderbirds, to which Pegasi later joined. It's true that I had to sacrifice one leadership slot. But I had a great, fast army with significant damage output. They pitted an Elven army with Gold Dragons against me. The result pleased me. =)
Continuing the topic of Inferno's weakness, I'll say this: have you ever heard of thousands of demons on low and medium difficulty maps?
I was talking about playing against the AI. Someone said that there's time to build up strength, etc. That won't work. Against 7 AI opponents, playing with one Inferno team, it's one of the most difficult Castles to use. The troops are weak, and there are no special features. Against human players, it's a different story. On small maps, the Swamp is cool. Wyverns are built quickly if there's wood.
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