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Tournament Committee
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In reply to Piterius
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Offline Dark
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Posts: 3,694
#5114
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Piterius
Monuments have outlived their time. If they hold any value in Ukraine, it is only for the narrow-minded "systemic" generation. They should remain for as long as that generation exists, but after that, they will inevitably turn to dust.
Everything is logical; they have outlived their time, but that doesn't mean they need to be destroyed! Officially dismantling them is fine, but engaging in sacrilege is unacceptable! Pffft.

лето 2012.
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Offline kalababa
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#5115
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Hey guys, who's going to the Olympics? We can meet up if you want.
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Offline Lucky George
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#5116
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Dear Diabler, this is my last official offer regarding our participation in the Favorites Tournament. It seems you prefer not to respond to messages on ICQ. Either find a way to fix the "internet problems," which, in my opinion, involve "avoiding" the game, or accept defeat on the Favorites page, or find a middle ground and win. Your "bad internet" has until January 20th.
P.S. January 15th is my daughter's birthday, so don't count on me being available for the game due to "improving the internet."
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Offline Shiva
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#5117
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Gunnar is furious.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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Posts: 3,259
#5118
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Former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates called the hasty accession of the Baltic states and a number of former Warsaw Pact countries into NATO a mistake, Interfax reported on Wednesday, citing Gates' memoir, "Duty." "The hasty inclusion of former Soviet satellites – the Baltic states, Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia – into NATO was a mistake," Gates writes in the book, which is due to be released soon. "This process should have taken place more slowly. The U.S. agreement with the governments of Romania and Bulgaria to rotate soldiers through their bases was an unnecessary provocation," the former head of the Pentagon notes. Gates also believes that "the attempt to invite Georgia and Ukraine into NATO was an overreach." "The roots of the Russian Empire lie in Kyiv, so this was a colossal provocation. Were Europeans, let alone Americans, ready to send their sons and daughters to defend Georgia or Ukraine? Hardly. So, NATO expansion was not a carefully considered military commitment, but a political act that undermined the alliance's goals and recklessly ignored what the Russians considered their vital national interests," the former head of the Pentagon writes. Gates, who has a background in Soviet studies and is a Republican, has worked with four U.S. presidents. In his opinion, "relations with Russia have suffered from poor management since (President George H.W. Bush) left office in 1993." "The arrogance of American officials, academics, businessmen, and politicians, who told Russians how to conduct their internal and foreign affairs, led to deep and long-term resentment and bitterness," Gates writes.


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In reply to Roger-ua
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Offline Lucky George
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#5120
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Roger-ua
Guys, as sad as it is, I'll stick to my opinion. I'm looking forward to the day when both Russia and Ukraine become European powers, not just geographically. Currently, they are two banana republics with a white population. Also, I should mention the controlled media, which is especially relevant for Russia, where censorship is at the level of the USSR, unfortunately. Just look at how Russian media portrays the "Maidan."
"Adding to this" http://nstarikov.ru/blog/35674
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline Roger-ua
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#5121
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Wicc
Regarding the recent changes in Ukrainian legislation:

http://www.kharkovforum.com/showthread.php?t=3510200
http://zhur-zhal.livejournal.com/245954.html

Some points seem questionable, allowing for abuse, but overall, the direction is clear.
Everything is so gloomy and sad. Ukraine is steadily catching up with Russia, Belarus, and other authoritarian regimes.
I don't see any point in responding to Lucky George either. It's sad if even (so-called) intellectuals can't see the difference between censorship and democracy.
Весна 2013.
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Offline Wicc
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#5122
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Roger-ua
Everything is so bleak and sad. Ukraine is steadily catching up with Russia, Belarus, and other authoritarian regimes.
You should look into what legislation exists on these same issues in the USA and Europe. You'll see that it's stricter there. Many "anti-Maidan" articles were copied from the laws of the USA and Europe as having stood the test of time.
It's also sad if even (so-called intellectuals) can't see the difference between censorship and democracy.
Tell me yourself. But make sure it doesn't contradict real, verifiable facts.
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In reply to Wicc
Offline rebellious
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Posts: 1,239
#5123
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Wicc
You should look into the legislation on these same issues in the USA and Europe. You'll see that it's stricter there. Many "anti-Maidan" articles were copied from the laws of the USA and Europe as having stood the test of time.
To complete the picture, it wouldn't hurt to provide a couple of examples from the many available. And why compare it to a completely different legal framework that is incomparable?
Summer 2013


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Offline Roger-ua
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#5124
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Wicc, your position is perfectly clear to me. In Russia, entire institutions are dedicated to promoting the theory of the "Russian world." They also explain to the people the advantages of the authoritarian Putin regime and its supposed honesty compared to "deceptive" democracy. In mathematics, your position is called a sophism. Simply put, you provide "irrefutable" evidence that 2+2=5, or maybe 6, but certainly not 4.
Весна 2013.
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Offline Wicc
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#5125
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Roger-ua
Wicc, I understand your position perfectly. In Russia, entire institutions are dedicated to the theory of the "Russian World." They explain to the people how wonderful the authoritarian Putin regime is and how much more honest it is compared to "lying" democracy.
Dude, I don't even know how to call a person who not only makes mistakes but also holds a position that is almost the opposite of reality.

In Russia, entire institutions are working on the theory of the "American World" - these are almost all human rights organizations funded from abroad. And a huge amount of money is poured into them.

Who is working on the theory of the Russian World - I don't know, sometimes it feels like no one is. And this saddens me, because there is a lot that can be said about this. And this is one of my grievances against Putin - the failure in the field of ideology, in the field of mass education, it has been left to foreign players. Therefore, as a result, we have a bunch of people who are mentally damaged by information wars, like you, Ikhtiandr, and many others.

Fortunately, things are not going very well in the US and Europe right now, so the information pressure is easing, and many unpleasant details about their social structure are emerging.
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Offline Nagan-4
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#5126
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What the hell is this "Russian world" theory? They are fleeing their territories, where they have lived for centuries – Northern Kazakhstan, Stavropol Krai, the Caucasus.
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Offline Sanin
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#5128
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Wicc
Dude, I don't even know how to call a person who not only makes mistakes but also holds a position that is almost the opposite of reality.

In Russia, entire institutions are working on the theory of the "American world" - these are almost all human rights organizations funded from abroad. And huge amounts of money are being poured into them.

Who is working on the theory of the "Russian world" - I don't know, sometimes it seems like no one. And this saddens me, because a lot can be said about this. And this is one of my grievances against Putin - a failure in the field of ideology, in the field of educating the masses, it has been left to foreign players. Therefore, as a result, we have a bunch of people who have been affected by information wars, like you, Ikhtiandr, and many others.

Fortunately, things are not going very well in the US and Europe right now, so the information pressure is easing, and many unpleasant details about their social structure are emerging.

Regarding human rights organizations and media outlets sponsored from abroad. Are there any specific figures for the huge amounts of money? Of course, money is being poured into them, but certainly not more than the state pours into its own media. At least in Russia, I don't know about Ukraine. Naturally, in such a situation, it is only possible to compete with state media with good support from the outside; market mechanisms do not work here, the competition is not equal. It is not an option for commercial entities to get involved; the only option is to wait for help from abroad. Or do you think it would be better if alternative points of view were not presented in the media? I don't see anything wrong with that.
Secondly, it is noteworthy that human rights organizations are sponsored from abroad. Ideally, they should not exist at all, because there are law enforcement agencies, courts, etc., but in reality, it always turns out that someone dies from a bottle in their anus, under the wheels of a car belonging to some official, in prison due to inhumane living conditions, etc. This is why the activities of such organizations are possible, so it is rather an indicator of the poor work of state law enforcement agencies. They are sponsored from abroad, of course, with certain goals, but it is still better for them to be sponsored from abroad than not to exist at all.
And thirdly, human rights organizations and a dozen media outlets are not institutions, and their ability to promote a certain worldview simply pales in comparison to the capabilities of the state propaganda machine.
ICQ 423164784

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