Connection ErrorBad RequestThis page went staleSession ExpiredSign in requiredForbiddenNot FoundToo Many RequestsServer ErrorBad GatewayService UnavailableGateway TimeoutHTTP Version Not Supported
Session Expired
Your session has expired. Please log in to continue.
Sign in required
You need an account to do that. Sign in or create one — it only takes a minute.
This page went stale
Your security token was rejected, usually because the page sat open too long or you signed in elsewhere. Nothing was saved. Reload the page and try again.
Request Failed
We encountered an issue while processing your request.
Please check your internet connection and try again.
I don't want to get into politics here. But I'll answer briefly. I wouldn't go either. But many who went are there not because of some "jerks," but against the current "jerks." For the most part, this "revolution" has an anti-systemic character, not a "pro-European" one. In any case, I repeat that all this does not affect the normal life of people who do not consider it necessary to get involved in this on their own.
It's clear that after this situation was initiated by someone, a stream of fighters for the "idea" poured in. I just don't understand the methods of the fighters – do the Maidan protesters think that by hanging out in this crowd for a few days, something will change? As practice shows, if anything changes, it will only be for the worse. The methods of fighters for the idea, for example in France, are radical, but they do yield some results... but with us... it's just a herd:(
It's clear that after someone initiated this situation, a flood of "idealists" emerged. I just don't understand the methods of these "fighters" – do they really think that by hanging out in this crowd for a few days, something will change? As practice shows, if anything changes, it's usually for the worse. The methods of "fighters" for an idea, for example in France, are radical, but they do yield some results... but here... it's just a crowd:(
This is the first time we've moved to radical actions, rather than just standing around with flags "for the idea." Anyway, I suggest we change the subject to something more useful and pleasant. :smile12:
Calm down about the Euromaidan! There's no revolution here! The guys will rant and rave and then disperse... Especially since January 1st to 7th are official holidays – everyone will be drinking, so they won't have time for the Maidan...
In any case, the location is far from the center, even further from Mezhyhirya, so everything will be quiet and peaceful.
Nagan-4
if it's 2 bucks for everything
This is just the rental of the house. Transportation, food, and entertainment are extra... We still need to calculate that, by the way...
The_
Tomorrow I'll buy tickets, departure from Moscow on January 2nd at 16:57, arrival in Kyiv at 04:13, or departure from Moscow at 22:15, arrival in Kyiv at 11:26, which time is better? Honestly, I prefer the train that arrives at 04:13, because you can go straight from the road to sleep, and you'll have to go through customs not at 3-4 in the morning (as with the second option), but at 23:00:00.
Departure from Moscow at 22:15, arrival in Kyiv at 11:26 – this is optimal – you'll arrive just in time for the event. Besides, I don't see the difference: waking up at 3 am for customs or going out later (and then, by the way, what? What will you do until morning?). But if someone arrives at 4 am, as I already wrote, I'll meet them – you won't be left on the street... but it's better to take the evening one.
Regarding food: Today I'll talk to an acquaintance who is a chef. If he is available and agrees, I will post the prices tomorrow. But for now, we need to decide in principle: organize food on site (including kebabs, I think, and everything else) or do you prefer to eat in restaurants? Please share your opinions!
Regarding the events in Ukraine. I ask Ukrainians to answer the questions first, without any unnecessary chatter or insults! The goal is to understand the situation, not to lecture you or engage in other nonsense. After all, we in Russia have our own leader and our own problems!
1). Do you support the current "Euromaidan" or not? What are the differences between it and the previous one from 10 years ago?
2). What do you dislike about the current president? Please, keep it brief.
3). Do you think Ukraine as a whole will benefit or not from joining the EU? Are you aware of the advantages (concessions) that need to be made when joining? Are you aware of the advantages (concessions) of joining the Customs Union? What are these advantages/concessions?
4). If the borders are opened, high-quality European goods will obviously flood into Ukraine at prices comparable to domestic ones. Will you continue to support your domestic producers with your money? And what about everyone else? How do you think this might affect businesses? Will they stay afloat? The main sales market – Russia – will automatically close (because Russia fears that cheap goods will transit through Ukraine into Russia). Do you think the EU will allow industries, for example, the machine-building industry, to sell Ukrainian products in its countries? How competitive will it be with the advanced technologies of the EU? Will they promote their own manufacturers to provide Ukraine with new sales markets to replace the old ones?
5). Why would the EU, which is experiencing a prolonged economic crisis, want to accept new members that will have to be subsidized in one way or another? And why would the USA want this? And why would Lithuania, Poland, and Sweden want this?
6). Do you expect that in Europe (with unemployment exceeding 20%), they will be happy to have labor from Ukraine? And what kind of work will it be?
7). Who would you vote for if elections were held tomorrow?
8). What is your attitude towards the USSR and the collapse of the Soviet Union?
In principle, answering these questions should be enough, and we can stop discussing it. And I ask everyone, especially Russians, to be restrained!!!
Over 10 years, the Satyrs have grown up; in the previous protests, they were still too young to be aware of what was happening. In 2011, the riots in Moscow were also mainly caused by those who were either in their cradles or around that age in 1991.
Either you're trolling, or you don't quite understand what you're talking about.
I agree with Tvarini's post about the anti-system nature of the protests.
I actually feel sorry for Джавдет :(
P.S. I promise I won't write anything off-topic here anymore.
1). No. There are no differences either. I don't support it, at least because after a revolution, there is usually a period of collapse. 2). A normal president, neither better nor worse than Kuchma. Yushchenko was worse. 3). You didn't understand the essence of the question. The point is not about joining the EU; it's just a course towards European integration. We won't be accepted into the EU for at least another 10 years. But even if Ukraine joins the EU, I'm afraid it will be like in Greece. 4). If the prices of goods were comparable, I would buy products, except for natural products like milk, meat, etc., which would be European. Their quality is higher due to control and certification. But the prices will not be comparable. They have no reason to sell their goods to us cheaper than they sell them to themselves.
5). In this case, this is being done to have a more or less clear access (agreements between Ukraine and Russia) and a certain ally against Russia. No, I'm not talking about war, but rather about supplying resources to Europe.
6). The work will not be for "bright minds." They need cheap, unskilled labor, like janitors and cleaners. They take "bright minds" anyway, without any extra talk.
7). Yanukovych. I don't see any candidate who could replace him without feeling pressure from the same coalition as before.
8). Unfortunately, I was born two months before the collapse of the Soviet Union. The only thing I can say is that they were idiots to dismantle a superpower!
Когда рестартов не осталось, обязательно ждите Гурниссона без балисты:D
Комплимент который сделал мой день: Катя ЭПИК барышня) вы бы видели как пялились на её сиськи молодёж) я та с девушкой был) но всё равно пялился ) потому что хорошие) (с) Browser
Слабая раздача, которую заиграл исключительно из-за колпака на 111. (с) Сатир
Probably because this event isn't entirely positive...
When people fight for their rights and freedoms and overthrow a corrupt dictator, it's always a positive thing. And when it happens without bloodshed, such an event is priceless. If you want to feel what's really going on there, turn off the damn TV and watch the live broadcast from Maidan. There's a festive atmosphere, people are having fun and helping each other to persevere until the end. I am with the Ukrainian people with all my heart and I deeply sympathize with them. I hope everything ends well and that this will serve as an example for Russia, and we will finally get out of this swamp.
Regarding the riots and provocations, all of this is organized by the current government to discredit the event and present it on TV as an attempt at an aggressive coup. This is a well-worn tactic used by Putin, and it was also used on May 6 and at all our protest rallies.
In 2011, in Moscow, those who were still in their cradles or thereabouts in 1991 were the ones who caused the most trouble.
People who go to rallies are always a tiny fraction of the total number of people who agree with the protesters. Some were busy and didn't come, some thought it was pointless to come out, some were afraid. As a result, for every 100,000 citizens who are inclined to protest, only one actually comes out (considering the entire population of the country). And the more authoritarian the regime in the country, the greater this ratio. In Ukraine, one and a half million people came out. This means that almost the entire population of the country is against the current government. Therefore, calling the people at Maidan a "bunch of rioting idiots" is the same as calling the entire population of Ukraine that.
1). Do you support the current "Euromaidan" or not?
Let's not stir up discord here, okay?KobRa_RR
What are the differences between it and the previous one 10 years ago?
The main difference is the lack of system, the absence of a common idea, and a clearly defined leader. And most importantly, back then, people BELIEVED that they could change something, but now they are standing around for 100 hryvnias and a sausage (mostly. There are, however, a few idealists who think that it's all for the sake of the association agreement, but what they are hoping for is a mystery to me personally).KobRa_RR
2). What do you dislike about the current president? Preferably, briefly.
1) It won't be brief; 2) It will be deleted anyway; 3) I will be banned.
P.S. But in principle, I have answered. And it turned out to be short... yeah.KobRa_RR
3). Do you think Ukraine as a whole will benefit or not from joining the EU?
Overall, I think it will benefit, but it's unclear how many years it will take.KobRa_RR
4). If the borders are opened, high-quality European goods will obviously flood into Ukraine at prices comparable to domestic ones.
Where did you get that information? Everyone here is expecting prices to rise. And not only for domestic goods, but especially for services.KobRa_RR
5). Why would the EU, which is experiencing a prolonged economic crisis, want to accept new members that it will have to subsidize in one way or another?
Probably for the same reason as Russia... ;)KobRa_RR
Why is this important to the USA? And why is it important to Lithuania, Poland, and Sweden?
The USA doesn't care. Lithuania and Poland want to look less miserable against our background. I haven't heard anything about Sweden, maybe for the same reason as Lithuania and Poland.KobRa_RR
7). Who would you vote for if there were elections tomorrow?
This is an inappropriate question, I hope you understand why.:(KobRa_RR
8). What is your attitude towards the USSR and the collapse of the Soviet Union?
:confused: Grandma remembers what it was like to be a girl! What are you even talking about?
P.S. And in general, stop talking about politics - it won't end well, you'll just ruin the site.
Added 7 minutes later Ihtiandr
Regarding the riots and provocations - all of this is organized by the current government in order to discredit the event and present it on television as an attempt at an aggressive coup d'état. This is a tried and tested Putin tactic, which was also used on May 6 and at all our protest rallies. http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2013/12/5/7004885/?attempt=1
This is not necessarily true. Judging by the reaction of our government to what is happening, I think they are sitting in a warm place, eating caviar and drinking vodka, and laughing at the efforts of the "opposition". And the "opposition", seeing this indifference and understanding that they will not succeed, is organizing provocations itself in order to somehow annoy the government.
Judging by our government's reaction to what's happening, I think they're sitting comfortably, eating caviar with vodka, and laughing at the efforts of the "opposition."
Actually, it's quite the opposite, judging by the reaction of our media; they're having a serious falling out. The state propaganda machine is in full swing, and the TV airwaves have reached a complete level of absurdity: Weather 24: weather in Maidan
Regarding the events in Ukraine. I ask Ukrainians to answer the questions first, without flooding or insults! The goal is to understand the situation, not to lecture you and other nonsense. In the end, we in Russia have our own king and our own problems!)
1). Do you support the current "Euromaidan" or not? What are the differences between it and the previous one 10 years ago?
2). What do you dislike about the current president? Preferably, briefly.
3). Do you think Ukraine as a whole will benefit or not from joining the EU? Are you aware of the advantages (concessions) that need to be made when joining? Are you aware of the advantages (concessions) of joining the Customs Union? What are these advantages/concessions?
4). If the borders are opened, high-quality European goods will obviously flood into Ukraine at prices comparable to domestic ones. Will you continue to support your domestic manufacturers with your wallet? And the rest? How do you think this might affect businesses? Will they stay afloat? The main sales market, Russia, will automatically close (because the Russian Federation is afraid that cheap goods will transit through Ukraine to Russia). Do you think the EU will allow industries, for example, mechanical engineering, to sell Ukrainian products in their countries? How competitive will it be with the advanced technologies of the EU? Will they promote their own manufacturers to provide Ukraine with new sales markets in exchange for the old ones?
5). Why does the EU, which is experiencing a prolonged economic crisis, need to accept new members now, who will have to be subsidized in one way or another? And why does the USA need this? And why does Lithuania, Poland, and Sweden need this?
6). Do you expect that in Europe (with unemployment above 20%), they will be happy with labor from Ukraine? And what kind of work will it be?
7). Who would you vote for if there were elections tomorrow?
8). What is your attitude towards the USSR and the collapse of the union?
In principle, answering these questions is enough, and nothing else needs to be discussed. And I ask everyone, especially Russians, to be restrained!!!
1. Yes. Let them express their opinion; in any case, they are not doing anything terribly cruel there, everything is calm and peaceful, and within the bounds. The difference is in the apolitical nature of the process. 2. In short, because he doesn't give a damn about the law. 3. The people of the country will benefit; getting the same cars at three times the current price is still a profit. I don't see any particular advantages in joining the Customs Union. 4. I don't really care what kind of product to buy; its nationality doesn't interest me much. The main thing is the price-quality ratio. In any case, uncompetitive enterprises will increase their competitiveness, which is what the user needs. And even now, there are a number of enterprises that are quite capable of attracting consumers if there is a certain alternative. The same "Roshen" is a well-known corporation in the world confectionery industry. I think it will easily withstand the competition. 5. Well, this is a funny question) It doesn't matter why they need it; the point is that the Constitution states the European integration direction of the country's development, so there is no other option to consider. 6. No, I don't expect it. In any case, many Ukrainian citizens work in Spain, Italy, and Portugal. 7. This is not a correct question. 8. I have a negative attitude towards the first, and a positive attitude towards the second. It will take a long time to get rid of the legacy of this "superpower," but whatever.
Thanks to those who have already responded: aka.Ward3n, Snooppy, Myxomoar. For those who haven't responded yet, please don't peek at the answers, but answer yourselves. After some time, if I'm not banned first, I'll try to organize the answers. The main thing is that everyone answers seriously and respectfully; after all, everyone has their own opinion! P.S. And why are you so afraid of the 7th question?) 500,000 people took to the streets of Kyiv; they will definitely deal with them first))) (just a joke, I won't be punished for online humor _yet_).
I just don't understand the methods of the protesters – do they really think that spending a few days in this crowd will change anything?
A lot can be achieved through peaceful protest, without any bloodshed. What will happen if even 10% of the population goes on strike? Many enterprises, including state-owned ones, will be unable to function, and the rest of the people, seeing the scale of what is happening, will stop being afraid and will join in. When this reaches a critical mass, current politicians will begin to join the people, realizing that there is no point in being enemies. And when, in the end, the troops join in, as happened during the August Coup in 1991 – that will be a complete victory, and Yanukovych will have nowhere to go.
Here is an example of the effectiveness of peaceful protest.
You're either trolling or you don't quite understand what you're talking about.
I agree with Tvarini's post about the anti-establishment nature of the protests.
I actually feel sorry for Dzhavdet :(
P.S. I promise I won't write about off-topic things here anymore.
Do you feel sorry because my view of these things is cynical? We're getting old. During the first Maidan, I wasn't indifferent to the events of that time. What was the outcome?
20 years of independence have taught us to expect only bad things. Are there any arguments against this?
And now, there's another round of artificial pitting of the West against the East, with the aim of seizing power by certain individuals. And they don't care what it will cost. I don't like the current government either, led by a man who has been to prison twice. But, damn it, who will replace them in the event of a revolution? The same kind of people... just a different color. I'm already sick of their faces, so I haven't watched political shows on TV for several years.
And now I really feel sorry (and unlike your "feel sorry," I feel genuinely sorry, without any sarcasm) for those young guys who might risk their health, freedom, and possibly their lives for the sake of the next bunch of scoundrels. Have you seen Mark Zakharov's film "Kill the Dragon"? If not, I recommend it.
P.S. By the way, I understand and RESPECT the sentiments of Western Ukraine, especially Lviv, because I have been there many times, so don't bring up the East-West animosity here.
Right now, there's another round of artificial antagonism between the West and the East, with the goal of individual characters seizing power. And they don't care what it will cost. I don't like the current government either, led by a person who has been in power for two terms. But, damn it, who will replace them in the event of a revolution? The same kind of people... just of a different color. I'm already sick of their faces, so I haven't watched political shows on TV for several years.
+100500! And watching TV is generally harmful!
So, let's at least not argue here?! I'm already sick of this politics!
P.S. I would also recommend rewatching "The Dog's Heart." Javdet
20 years of independence have taught us to expect only bad things. Are there any arguments against this?
But you're wrong! A person rarely gets what they deserve, but always gets what they expect (quote - I don't remember whose). So be careful with your expectations! :) You should only believe in good things!
A lot can be achieved through peaceful protest, without any bloodshed. What will happen if even 10% of the population goes on strike? Many enterprises, including state-owned ones, will be unable to function, and the rest of the people, seeing the scale of what is happening, will stop being afraid and will join in. When this reaches a critical mass, current politicians will begin to join the people, realizing that there is no point in being hostile. And when, in the end, the troops join in, as happened during the August Coup in 1991, it will be a complete victory, and Yanukovych will have nowhere to go.
Here is an example of the effectiveness of peaceful protest.
Yanukovych doesn't care about strikes. They have more at stake – they are losing their throne, and the new government will automatically shut them down, or they will have to collect rubles and flee.
Added 2 minutes ago KobRa_RR
Thank you to those who have already responded: aka.Ward3n, Snooppy, Myxomoar. To those who have not yet responded, please do not peek, but answer yourselves. After some time, if I am not banned first, I will try to systematize the answers. The main thing is that everyone answers to the point, correctly, because everyone has their own opinion! P.S. And why are you so afraid of question number 7?) 500,000 people took to the streets of Kyiv, and at first they will definitely deal with them))) (just a joke, I won't be put in jail for online humor _yet_).
They are not afraid – there is no suitable candidate. And if one appears, they will mold him to their liking.
Javdet
