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This issue is resolved by using a good шах.timer. I've seen this papal game with a timer of 4000+400 on full WT ;)
HellLighT
Posts from Winter Championship for Heroes 3 [Kyiv-2014]
Closed
Are you planning to attend this event?
80
voters
Single choice
Public votes
This poll is closed.
Yes, I will definitely come.
16.3%
13 votes
I will try, but I cannot give an exact answer right now.
22.5%
18 votes
I’ll decide closer to January (I’ll make up my mind at the last moment)
20%
16 votes
I definitely won’t be able to go.
41.3%
33 votes
HellLighT
HellLighT
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I suggest a deck consisting of 5 templates and control:
1. 2sm4d(3) - 8+4+1 (maybe 10+6+1?)
2. M200 (deck of 2sm2s, balance, skirmish) - 8+4+1
3. Diamond - 16+8+1
4. Jebus Cross - 16+8+1
5. 8mm6a - 16+8+1
What do you think?
Is this sarcasm?
twaryna
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That’s why all of this was put up for discussion. What are your suggestions regarding the templates and the timer? Removing 8mm6a is fine. In my opinion, 4 templates look unappealing. We need to either find another, more or less large template, but one that takes less time to play (a mini-nostalgia map?) or we can leave 3 templates, as was done in Novosibirsk – m200, diamond, and jebus.
P.S. VT will not be a default game version in any form. By mutual agreement, it is possible.
P.S. VT will not be a default game version in any form. By mutual agreement, it is possible.
Dirty_Player
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This problem is solved by a good chess timer. I saw this papal game with a timer of 4000+400 on full WT ;)
Added 2 minutes ago
ps. WT will not be the default version of the game in any form. by mutual agreement - maybe.
twaryna
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Nothing like that. Well, they will play not for 2 months, but for 3 with a fast timer. The essence doesn't change. In Warlords, at least, you can gain control, but in SOD, you might not, and then the game in the format of "rush vs. control" can drag on indefinitely. The fact that they played XL in Novosibirsk is my fault, but I was once again convinced that XL+U is bad for tournaments, and every tournament confirms this. Maybe try 8mm6a for L+U?
Added 2 minutes later
I don't recommend Warlords, even by agreement. Warlords in its current form is a breeding ground for bugs, desynchronization, gray castles, etc. In Novosibirsk, a lot of time was spent on fixing a gray castle. And the CIS-2013 tournament also confirms this thesis.
Okay, if that's the case, then Warlords won't be used in any form. The tournament, as planned, will be held on SOD. And was 8mm6a ever played as L+U? Just experimenting is not an option, in my opinion. And what about mini-nosty, for example?
The_
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Mininosta is one of the favorite maps, but in my opinion, it takes even longer than 8mm6a, due to the larger number of treasure locations (and, unlike 8mm6a, you always know exactly where to run and find them). Consequently, even if your opponent rushes you through the center, you can calmly retreat to your corner treasure locations with control, which I always found in any game on Mininosta, and calmly run around. The average game duration, based on my experience, is 4-5 weeks+.
241-568-808
twaryna
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Minino is one of my favorite templates, but imho it takes even longer than 8mm6a, due to having a larger number of treasure zones (and unlike the 8, you always know exactly where you're going and where to find them), so even if your opponent rushes you through the center, you can calmly retreat to your corner treasure zones with control, which I always found in any game on Minino, and just run around; the average game duration, by feel, is 4-5 weeks +.
Imho this is a mistaken opinion. The game is definitely faster due to the smaller map size and linearity. Essentially, it's a mix of smka and Jebus. Haven't seen a single game longer than 1.5 months. Often the game ends before the end of month 1. Although maybe that's long too. Maybe I overestimate the blitz timer.
The_
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Well, that’s what I wrote, on average 4-5 weeks (based on my own experience, for example, a lawyer came to me on the second week and took over the main account; I was eating lunch at the time, regained control, and they scattered around the map; it was the 7th week when the lawyer lost his password; before that, I was losing/winning games in a minimum of 4 weeks, often due to a blunder). And on the 8th week (often on the second turn)
P.S. Let’s finish the game in about an hour and a half; I’m leaving work soon.
P.S. Let’s finish the game in about an hour and a half; I’m leaving work soon.
241-568-808
twaryna
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well, that's what I wrote, on average 4-5 weeks, and isn't it the same for 8-player games?
ps. let's finish the game in about an hour and a half, I'll be leaving work soon.
Hl+u games can last for 2+ months. On a mini-map, all the scenarios are basically completed within a month, give or take, and then there's just nothing left to do on the map.
ps. I'm at work right now. Write to me on ICQ when you get home.
Wicc
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IMHO this is a mistaken opinion. The game is definitely faster due to the smaller map size and linearity. Essentially, it's a mix of SMKA and Jebus Cross. I haven't seen a single game lasting longer than 1.5 months. Often the game ends before the end of month 1. Although maybe that's still long. Maybe I'm overestimating the blitz timer.
Example - a Medium vs Redwhite game from the last CIS, which ended in adjudication by mutual consent on day 14, even though the prospects for playing were still 2-3 weeks, but they would only have delayed the inevitable.
But on 8mm6a such a calculation is impossible in most cases — too many possible movement routes for farmers, too many castles/villages, teleports, and the rest.
Playing 8mm6a on L+U is an lol-facepalm, I suggest not considering it :)
Javdet
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The main advantage of the Mini-Nosta is that it is easy to award. You look at the situation, and the outcome is clear. You estimate the time it will take for the fleeing player to finish their turn, you estimate the amount of loot that their opponent will gather during that time, you add it to the strength of the armies/heroes, and you compare.
For example, the Medium vs. Redwait game from the last CIS tournament ended with a mutual agreement to award the victory on turn 14, although there were still 2-3 weeks of gameplay left, but it would only have prolonged the inevitable.
But in 8mm6a, such a calculation is usually impossible - there are too many possible routes for the players, too many castles/villages, teleports, and so on.
Playing 8mm6a on L+U is just ridiculous, I suggest not considering it :)
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:
Зима 2011-12.
Зима 2011-12.
Wicc
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Yura, your point of view is correct, but it's correct from the judge's perspective. And, statistically, mini-maps aren't any faster than standard maps. More precisely, the endgame on a standard map is unpredictable – it can start from week 2 and continue until the very end, while on a mini-map, it starts around week 3-4 and continues until the end...
On 8mm6a, you can easily play for 2 months and not even approximately determine the winner.
For tournament purposes, it's not the duration of the average game that matters, but the duration of a drawn-out game.
Roger DAltavilla
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Maybe try 8mm6a for L+U?
“Margo” template (8mm6a for L+U)
Basically, it’s the same 8mm6a, but two quadrants with companions have been removed, and dead-end treasure rooms have been made passable. All transitions are 3000, transitions to treasure rooms are 6000.
All player zones (1, 2, 5, 6) have standard contents.
All intermediate zones (3, 4, 7, 8, 14, 15) also have standard contents, only the range [500-3000]x12 is more abundant, so there are more money, stashes, and supplies.
Corner treasure rooms 9 and 10 contain villages; their content is standard for treasure rooms.
Treasure rooms 11, 12, and 13 do not contain villages; the range [10000-15000]x15 has been increased here, so there are many hives and drowned creatures.
You can play 1x1 with random companions. Or you can play 2 players + 2 companions. Then, after the players have chosen their Castles, red chooses a bot for blue (green), and blue chooses a bot for red (brown). Let’s say they sabotage each other :D
rmg and tpz template files
Воздам сторицей!
favio
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That's why I never play this 8mm6a template, because all games on it are unrealistically long. It's not normal to play one game for 15-20 hours; in that time I could play three Jebus Cross games.
Plus, with control, games on 8mm6a can often turn into a draw, at least from my own experience. Forget it, I'm not wasting time on that, in short.
The template is interesting, but too long.
Plus, with control, games on 8mm6a can often turn into a draw, at least from my own experience. Forget it, I'm not wasting time on that, in short.
The template is interesting, but too long.
KobRa_RR
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If you just want to move the horses around, then Jebus is perfect, but if you want meaningful gameplay, then 8mm6 is still the best.
Added 14 minutes later
My template suggestion is as follows:
for SOD (+MOD)
Diamond L+U (16+6+1)
2sm4d3 L+U (16+6+1)
Anarchy L+U (30+8+1, meaningful gameplay, not suitable for short games)
Jebus Cross XL-U (16+6+2) or M200 M-U (16+4+1)
Balance L-U (16+6+2)
for VT
Diamond L+U (1000+400, well-tested)
Mirror L+U (2500+400, this is the maximum, it shouldn't be removed, usually everything is finished by week 3)
8MM6a 200% XL+U (1000+400, thanks to 200% and the time limit, you can save 3-4 hours of real time)
Jebus Cross XL-U (1000+400, everything is clear here)
Demoni L-U (1000+400, if it passes the tournament test, if not, there is something to replace it with)
You can completely remove VT from the tournament. The main thing is that it doesn't significantly affect attendance... If, of course, anyone here cares about that)
Added 14 minutes later
My template suggestion is as follows:
for SOD (+MOD)
Diamond L+U (16+6+1)
2sm4d3 L+U (16+6+1)
Anarchy L+U (30+8+1, meaningful gameplay, not suitable for short games)
Jebus Cross XL-U (16+6+2) or M200 M-U (16+4+1)
Balance L-U (16+6+2)
for VT
Diamond L+U (1000+400, well-tested)
Mirror L+U (2500+400, this is the maximum, it shouldn't be removed, usually everything is finished by week 3)
8MM6a 200% XL+U (1000+400, thanks to 200% and the time limit, you can save 3-4 hours of real time)
Jebus Cross XL-U (1000+400, everything is clear here)
Demoni L-U (1000+400, if it passes the tournament test, if not, there is something to replace it with)
You can completely remove VT from the tournament. The main thing is that it doesn't significantly affect attendance... If, of course, anyone here cares about that)
