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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

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In reply to Wicc
Offline Grando
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#1781
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and in the latest HD mode, I'll let you in on a secret, there's an option to change the seed for battles, so even if you find such a cell under the neutrals, it won't happen again. or, as in our case, you'll have to sort it out right away on the first try.

Javdet, I like using the nuances of the landscape; I would actually prefer the battlefield in the game to be larger, and the landscapes more intricate, so I don't even perceive this as a bug. For me, it's a very rare occurrence.
As for honor, I've already stated my opinion. Victory isn't important to me here. What's important is that when an unusual situation is discovered, the rules that you don't want to apply should be changed immediately so that it doesn't happen again. That's why I really like Britvotchka's suggestion.
My suggestion, which Pete didn't like, was more awkward and led to a replay... hmm, 0.5 is also not bad.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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In reply to Grando
Offline Diabler
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#1782
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Oldboy
And, I'll let you in on a secret, the latest HD mod includes a seed change for battles, so even if you find such a spot near neutral creatures, it won't happen again. Or, as in our case, you'll have to deal with it right away.

Javdet, I like using the nuances of the landscape; I would actually prefer the battlefield in the game to be larger, and the landscapes more intricate, so I don't even see this as a bug. For me, this is a very rare occurrence.
As for honor, I've already expressed my opinion. Victory isn't important to me here. What's important is that when an unusual situation is discovered, the rules are immediately changed, so that it doesn't happen again, even if we don't want to apply those rules. That's why I really like Britvochka's suggestion.
My suggestion, which Pete didn't like, was more awkward and led to a replay... Hmm, 0.5 is also not bad.
I'll tell you a secret: it changes if you switch from an old version to a new one. In the new version, it's the same.
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In reply to Javdet
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Offline Heroin_HP
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#1783
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Javdet
Cool!))) It needs to be replayed. Force majeure, unforeseen in the rules.

If you watch the video, you'll see that the speed of the Phoenixes is the first thing to consider; if you miss it, you lose! Force majeure should have been used by Old Boy.
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Offline twaryna
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#1784
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In my opinion, the situation isn't that critical. Shemonyu made a mistake and lost. Oldboy skillfully used the terrain. No matter what anyone says, the situation is similar to the impossibility of a faster unit catching up to an attacking unit, or even more so, it's like a battle where the defender in a castle destroys a catapult, while the attacker only has infantry units. Even if the attacker's army is a hundred times larger than the defender's, they can't get past the castle walls. They either need to occupy that cell or have magic to kill the opponent in such a situation.
http://heroes3.tv/twaryna
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline Wicc
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#1785
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+1

Discussions about the spirit of the game are possible in situations that are not regulated by the rules or are regulated vaguely. Here, however, it is a precise application of a rule that has been in effect for many years, and everyone is aware of how it works.

Many games have been won using this strategy, and in a number of scenarios (for example, when the opponent has a large number of skeletons), it is necessary to rely on this rule as a matter of course.
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline bRitvo4kA
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#1786
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The rules are not perfect and are being improved. In this example, the attacking side in a battle cannot completely destroy the enemy, but on the other hand, the defending side cannot do so either. And the current rules indirectly award victory to the defender, which is unfair.
В дикім полі
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,032
#1788
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Guys, what are you doing? The situation is exactly the same as when 1 serpent flies away from a legion of skeletons or a catapult is destroyed. The terrain is generally a tricky thing; it can help, but it can also hinder. In this situation, you could have used the birds to occupy that spot and attack from a distance, but waiting for your opponent to be generous is foolish!
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In reply to Dirty_Player
Offline Grando
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#1790
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Dirty_Player
...and expecting fairness from your opponent is foolish!

Why is it foolish?

For example, I won't insist on winning here, but let's change the rules so that there is clarity on what we consider to be the fairest solution to this kind of situation.

For me, this is the same as I suggested to include in the rules: limitations on "starting new games for those who still have unfinished games, and the opponent is ready to play the unfinished game," but it turned out that the Community generally has different views on this situation.
For some, such behavior is disrespectful to the opponent in the unfinished game; for others, it is perfectly normal.

The same applies here - for some, it's a "normal bug," and for others, it's "nonsense that contradicts the spirit of the game."

Nevertheless, I still believe that everyone who wrote in the style of "this is nonsense" completely failed because they don't offer specific changes to the rules but only spout emotions.
The only one who managed to write something constructive was Britvotchka, and I think he did a very good job.
Dirty_Player
The situation is exactly the same as when 1 serpent flies away from a legion of skeletons.

And it's still unclear why, when a serpent flies away from a legion of skeletons, the skeletons should be declared losers.
A draw may not look ideal, but it seems like a much fairer outcome.
Forcing the skeletons to lose looks like an obvious absurdity, as if "we couldn't come up with anything better."
Well, we waited, we waited, and we got lucky; Britvotchka came up with a draw.

Now I'm surprised that the opposing side of the discussion (twaryna, Wicc, Dirty_Player) ignored the idea of a draw in their comments.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1791
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Rules are needed for clarity, and ethical and noble issues should be resolved through mutual agreement. Why isn't a draw considered? Simply because the attacker can often initiate such stalemate situations, especially when the opponent has a lot of slow units. I'm not even mentioning the fact that such a situation can arise in a battle of weak units. Otherwise, it's simple: if you attack and can't win, retreat. Why don't troops fight? Because it's pointless to force the player to make deliberately losing moves.
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In reply to Dirty_Player
Offline Grando
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#1792
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Dirty_Player
Why isn't a draw considered? Simply because the attacker can often initiate such a stalemate when the opponent has a lot of slow units.
Perhaps you could provide a real-life example so we can immediately understand?
Otherwise, it seems like
the player has completely wasted all their magic, even running out of basic haste
and all this while having tons of units, in the middle of enemy territory, where they can still be attacked and harassed by weaker units.
I'm not even mentioning that such a situation can occur in a unit battle.
Reread the sentence, Britvochka :smile51:
bRitvo4kA
A stalemate in battle is equivalent to offering a draw in a game from the defending side.
The attacker has two options: agree to a draw or retreat (if this outcome is not satisfactory) and come back with a new army.
And if a draw is not beneficial to the defender, then they must retreat from the battle.

Both sides have a choice – agree to a draw or retreat and continue playing.
Unit battles have nothing to do with it.

---------------

Nevertheless, regarding the first part of what Dirty said, the wording can be clarified.
I suggest the following draft of the final version:

Stalemate in Battle.

A stalemate in battle occurs when one of the sides avoids direct contact between units and does not inflict any damage on the opponent.
If the reason for the stalemate in battle is that the attacking player avoids contact, then the attacker is considered to have lost the battle and must retreat.
If the reason for the stalemate in battle is that the defending player avoids contact, then they must make a choice and either offer a draw in the game or retreat; upon receiving the draw offer, the attacker must either accept the draw or retreat.
A situation where a castle is stormed with a broken catapult is not considered a stalemate in battle – it is a loss for the attacker, and they must retreat.
In tournaments with a single-elimination system, after a draw, the players return to the situation that existed before the start of the game and begin the next generation with the same number of restarts.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline Scorpiona
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#1793
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I had a similar situation; at the end of a battle on an island, I led the remaining archers and air units to a spot and used them to shoot down the opponent's two-tile-wide, heavily armored stack of Gorgons...
And I don't remember any questions arising about whether it was a map bug or anything like that... It just looked like I was taking advantage of the terrain at the right time.
The same goes for the ballista that was mentioned earlier! I didn't realize I needed to destroy it and lost an epic battle!
Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't... as Tvarina said, you need to have options if you're going into battle! Your opponent might have bracers, a red orb, or assembled armor... and you can't always check for that either!!!


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In reply to Wicc
Offline Grando
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#1794
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Different options are possible, but it already makes sense to talk about the fact that the proposed wording in the rules (it's obvious to me) is fairer than what is currently written in them. Using any specific examples. P.S. And the air units shooting at Gorgons is, sorry, off-topic, because it's not about the patch.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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In reply to Wicc
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Offline LeBron
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Posts: 1,453
#1795
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in my opinion, the situation is completely one-sided, a clear victory for Oldboy.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D
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In reply to Wicc
Offline Егор Коробейников
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#1796
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Shall we have a vote? The snake will always fly away from the skeleton, regardless of the terrain (this is a completely different situation). But here, it just feels unfair with the battlefield... I don't remember in my games having terrain where you could hide from 2 high-level units. I think this should be considered a bug in the map generation. Because I often wondered if the terrain could be generated in such a way that a high-level unit couldn't reach at all (couldn't get close). I thought the developers intentionally made it so that it could always reach – for balance. In my opinion, this should be recognized as a bug in the map generation and prohibited. This rule shouldn't apply to this situation, and the victory should be given to the old boy... But, in my opinion, the old boy should suggest playing a Best of 3.
icq - 470286448
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Offline Scorpiona
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#1797
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Oldboy

Stalemate in battle.

The reason for a stalemate in battle is that one of the sides in the battle avoids direct contact between troops.
If the reason for the stalemate in battle is that the attacking player avoids contact, then the attacking player is considered to have lost the battle and must retreat.
If the reason for the stalemate in battle is that the defending player avoids contact, then they must make a choice and either offer a draw in the game or retreat; upon receiving a draw offer, the attacking player must either accept a draw in the game or retreat.
A stalemate in battle does not include the situation of a castle siege with a broken catapult - this is a loss for the attacker, and they must retreat.
In tournaments with a single-elimination system, after a draw, the players return to the situation that existed before the start of the game and begin the next generation with the same number of restarts.

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel??? This creates a wave of absurd situations in the game!!!
If you can't kill, retreat, it's that simple!!!


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