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Posts from CIS-2014 in Minsk.

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Offline Snooppy
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#32
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Wicc
First, these features need to be implemented. And if there's going to be a guild overhaul, it should also include a fix for one-way teleporters. Preferably, this should be done by adding new types of two-way teleporters to the game, rather than by changing how the one-way teleporters work.
Of course, a clear list of changes is needed; how else would it be done?
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Offline PReDS
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#33
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Javdet
I would also add magic balance to this list.
When I was at Valenok's wedding, Kostya (Dirty Player) and I were just discussing magic balance. And Kostya sharply spoke out against moving Town Portal to fire magic, because it is already a very strong element. If you think about it, fire has a wealth of useful spells, both for use against neutrals and against a live opponent, but their application simply requires a higher skill level than for earth. By reducing the imbalanced nature of the element, so to speak, for noobs (earth), we ended up with an equally imbalanced fire, but for more skilled players.
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Offline Ihtiandr
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#34
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PReDS, can you rank fire, earth, and water magic in descending order of their power? (Air is obviously the worst in WoG).
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Offline Javdet
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#35
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Okay, let's count and compare: 1. Hide Armor vs. Thirst, Curse, Misfortune. I would choose the first two. 2. Slow – there are no analogs in fire. In my opinion, it's the most important low-level spell; it's no coincidence that it was moved to the 2nd tier in WoG. 3. Wall of Fire – a plus for fire. Provided that Moon is available. 4. Wave, Sandstorm, Force Field – Blindness, Minefield. Fire is still preferable, although Wave can decide the outcome of the game. 5. Resurrect Living and Undead vs. Sacrifice. In my opinion, these are incomparable. 6. Fire Shield, Executioner, Frenzy – there are no analogs in earth, but I haven't seen the first two used online. 7. Meteor vs. Fireball and Inferno. This is a matter of personal preference. I prefer Meteor. 8. Berserk – a top-tier spell, but: it's best to have fire experience for it. But the problem is that fire is usually abandoned to get earth. 9. Implosion and Armageddon. It's incorrect to compare them, but I'll still put them side by side; both are deadly spells. 10. Antimagic. No comment. 11. Earthquake – not often used, but sometimes it comes in very handy, especially for the computer when attacking. And now, let's add Portal and Scrying here, assign from 1 to 3 points based on the degree of importance, and each person counts how many points each element has based on their personal preferences. I got a very significant advantage, and I would give 4-5 points for Teleportation. And water is not even worth discussing – it's the most useless book in SoD.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline PReDS
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#36
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Javdet
Okay, let's count and compare:
1. Hide, Shield vs. Thirst, Curse, Misfortune. I would choose the first two.
2. Slow – there are no analogs in fire. In my opinion, it's the most important low-level spell; it's no coincidence that it was moved to the 2nd tier in WoG.
3. Wall of Fire – a plus for fire. Provided that Moon is available.
4. Wave, Sandstorm, Force Field – Blindness, Minefield. Fire is also preferable here, although Wave can decide the outcome of the game.
5. Resurrect Living and Undead vs. Sacrifice. IMHO, these are incomparable.
6. Fire Shield, Execution, Frenzy – there are no analogs in earth, but I haven't seen the first two used in online games.
7. Meteor vs. Fireball and Inferno. This is a matter of personal preference. I like Meteor more.
8. Berserk – a top-tier spell, but: it's best to have fire expertise for it. But here's the problem: people usually give up fire to get earth.
9. Implosion and Armageddon. It's incorrect to compare them, but I'll still put them side by side; both are deadly spells.
10. Antimagic. No comment.
11. Earthquake – not often used, but sometimes it comes in very handy, especially for the computer when attacking.

And now, let's add Portal and Scouting here, assign a score from 1 to 3 based on the degree of importance, and each person calculates which element has more points based on their personal preferences.
I got a very significant advantage, and I would give 4-5 points for Teleport.

And water is not even worth discussing – it's the most useless school of magic in SoD.
We were discussing the WoG balance. And your analysis reveals bias from the very first line: in the early stages, the spells you listed are needed to capture banks, and there, the effect of Curse is simply much better than Hide and Shield combined. Of course, we are talking about the effect of the spells with expert skill; if it is not maxed out, then it's the fault of the player, not the lack of skill.
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Offline Javdet
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#37
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From the outside, it might seem biased, but that wasn't my intention)))

As for the shield and the course, I'm ready to argue.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Bayazet
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#38
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Down with slow and casual play.
Only hardcore!
Victim is in 1st place.
P.S. Let there be taverns everywhere.
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Offline PReDS
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#39
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Javdet
It may look biased from the outside, but I didn't set such goals for myself)))

As for the shield and the course, I'm ready to argue.
Roma, not only are you mistaken yourself, but you're also confusing beginners.
Expert Stone Skin - +6 defense on all stacks, i.e., reduces damage by 15%.
Expert Shield - reduces damage by 30%.
Expert Curse - 80% of minimum damage - 1. I.e., for griffins in the Conservatory, damage becomes somewhere between 1 and 2 from an average of 4.5 - reduced almost 3 times; for snakes in the Hive, a solid 1 from 3.5 - the effect is even more pronounced (considering that there's no particular point in casting anything other than healing on yourself in the Hive).
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Offline Javdet
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#40
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and also, in Naga, Dwarf, and Necropolis, the Earth magic is very effective, unlike Shield.
Not to mention that I've seen countless times how Earth magic is used in the late game, both against neutral creatures (like high-level banks with dragons) and against opponents.

Regarding effectiveness, it's pointless to argue; Earth magic provides a stronger effect. But the question is how often it's used and how versatile it is. Based on these indicators, Earth magic seems more advantageous to me.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Wicc
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#41
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Ihtiandr
PReDS, can you rank the magic schools of Fire, Earth, and Water in descending order of their power? (Air is obviously the weakest in Warlords)
Water-Earth-Fire-Air. But the difference between them isn't that significant.
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Offline Javdet
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#42
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Wicc
Water-Earth-Fire-Air. But the gap between them isn't very big.
And here I'll add my two cents:D
In my opinion, the gap between the last two is quite large.
In the air, besides haste, there isn't much to highlight. Fly works without it, it's a bit more expensive and less effective on rough terrain, but that's about it.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#43
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Javdet, your comparisons are inaccurate. There's no point in comparing combat spells because the damage mostly comes from spell power, and the element plays a secondary role (an explosion without earth or Armageddon without fire wouldn't be a problem either). You need to compare magic that is effective at the Expert level. In Earth, you have shield/skin, slow, and resurrection. In Fire, you have thirst/curse, frenzy, berserk, and sacrifice. I think these are quite comparable in effectiveness. Earth is good against neutrals, while Fire is good against an opponent.
Javdet
And there's no point in even talking about Water – it's the most useless school of magic in SoD.
Lol! Water is the best magic for difficult endgame scenarios, and it's the best because it can counter any magic that the opponent has. Plus, you have clone, prayer, and teleport. Add to that damage shield, and you get a must-have overpowered spell. It doesn't help much against neutrals, of course, but again, who in WoG is really bothered by neutrals? P.S. If you can somehow agree that moving Teleport to Fire is acceptable, then moving Damage Shield to Water is just nonsense. **Water with Damage Shield is many times better than Air with Damage Shield.** Just my opinion.
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Offline Javdet
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#44
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I'm not claiming any special accuracy here. As is obvious, these spells are quite diverse. I've simply painted a general picture where everyone can choose for themselves. You are absolutely right that comparisons should be made at the Expert level. But if I had provided such a comparison, people would have started pointing out, "where are the other spells?" :D
Water is good, no doubt about it. It's just that for some reason, people reject it 3 times over in hopes of catching Air or Earth))
I'll say it again - I believe that not the efficiency of the spells is more important, but how often they are actually used. Mirror is also a very effective thing - you cast an Imp, and it flies right back at you. But I've never seen anyone actually cast it.

"P.S. if one can somehow agree with moving Town Portal to Fire, then shifting Dimension Door to Water is just nonsense. Water with DD is times cooler than Air with DD. Just IMHO."

I agree here, Air was nerfed)), but on the other hand, a clear underdog was raised up to the peloton.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline KobRa_RR
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#45
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Dimension Door can be left in 2 books - water and air
for now, three elements (fire-water-earth) are balanced, and I believe this step might help boost air.


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Offline =Stinger=
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#46
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Could you make the Counterstrike spell affect multiple targets? ))
And could you make the Air Lift spell work by restoring the air view in the game master mode?
Or maybe create a slag mass spell that deals +1 or +2 damage and raise it to a different level, wouldn't that be possible?
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