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Offline Sav
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#326
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Dirty_Player
Berserk needs to be fixed 100%, as long as fixing the berserk bug doesn't change how it works.
What exactly is meant by "differently"? The basic idea of the action will remain the same – the stack runs to the nearest target. But the calculation of this target has been rewritten, and the stack may choose a different target than it would have in the original (but from the point of view of the shortest distance, the target after the fix is more (or equally) correct than in the original).

AI fixes in general are a rather interesting topic; a lot can be achieved even by simply fixing bugs and obvious shortcomings.
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Offline Antoshka
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#327
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Dirty_Player
Imagine, you're playing as Galtran and you attack fast neutral creatures, like snakes. They start running around the battlefield to avoid you, so you can't catch them and have to retreat :D

Added 1 minute ago

The bug with neutral creatures running through everything is one of those bugs that doesn't bother anyone and can be considered a feature. But the berserk bug needs to be fixed 100%, just as long as fixing the berserk bug doesn't change how it works :D

The berserk bug is closely related to the movement of double-hex units, and if it's fixed, the AI will move differently, especially around fire walls.

In general, double-hex units fight a little differently than single-hex units, and this is very noticeable.
For example, with the berserk.
Also, griffins only land on 2 walls, but very reluctantly on one.
Also, if a diagonal line crosses the entire map, double-hex units perceive a block there under certain conditions, even though there isn't one. And so on.
It's all related to the double-hex size.

You don't even know what you want. You shout "bug, bug..." but don't want to touch Heroes. Let them move as they did before. They always moved with these bugs...
You'll get what you deserve. They'll either fly around you or retaliate, removing and attacking through white spaces.
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Offline Sav
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#328
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Antoshka
The bug with the Berserker is closely related to the movement of two-hex units, and if it is fixed, the AI will also behave differently, especially when dealing with the Fire Wall.
No, there are no changes regarding the Fire Wall or two-hex units. There might be changes related to flight (when flying over other units), as a certain issue has been fixed, but it seems to only manifest with the Berserker (roughly speaking, in addition to the well-known bug with the Berserker in the original game, there is another one – I can't formulate it precisely, but it's something like this: if you need to attack an enemy from the nearest position and have to fly over them, the turn will be skipped).
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Offline Ihtiandr
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#329
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Dirty_Player
That's exactly the kind of bug that doesn't bother anyone and is considered a feature.

Can someone explain what "neutral spawn diarrhea" is?))
Lider1
I am well aware that if such heroes existed, all the developed techniques, strategies, tricks, and everything else would become irrelevant. And I would play such a game with great, immense interest. But unfortunately, I don't have a choice...

+++++

I had an idea a long time ago to write a battle simulator. Then, gather all the Heroes programmers and hold a contest for AI. And the winning AI could be used in the game. But I got stuck on the first stage; it's too complicated a task.)

Sav, do you know how difficult it would be to simply extract the battle simulator from Heroes?
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Offline Sav
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Posts: 473
#330
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Ihtiandr
Can someone explain what this strange behavior with neutral creatures is?
If a hero only has neutral creatures and creatures for which a specific terrain is their native land, and if you arrange them so that all the neutral creatures are to the left of all the other creatures in the hero's window, then the hero will move across that terrain without any penalty, as if it were native land for all of his creatures (whereas with a different arrangement, the neutral creatures give a penalty on any terrain, because they don't have a native land of their own). This is a technical bug related to the fact that the coder forgot that the native land number for neutral creatures is -1 and used this number to indicate that no stack has been checked yet.
Ihtiandr
I had an idea a long time ago to write a battle simulator. Then, gather all the hero game programmers and hold a contest on AI. And the winning AI could then be integrated into the game. But I got stuck on the first stage; it's too complicated.
I think that the last point (integrating it into the game) is several times more difficult than all the others combined.
Ihtiandr
Sav, do you know how difficult it would be to simply extract the battle simulator from the game?
It's not possible to simply extract it; it's easier to write it from scratch or take it from VCMI. I can only talk about some subtle aspects of the game mechanics that are not present or are incorrectly described in the Physics Engine.
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Offline Toganash
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Posts: 1,283
#331
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07/30/2013 Kurnu пока(Vatya (Red, Flaks, random Lacus, Grinya) & Toganash (Brown, Tant, Tant ) lose Peka Generation (HellLighT (Blue, Castle, Valeska, Mullich) & Twaryna (Green, Citadel, Gurney) ), Boombox, 121
Right from the start, I apologize for the late report and possible inaccuracies in the header, but the essence is correctly preserved: (Vatya & Toganash) lose (HellLighT & Twaryna).
It wasn't a very smart move to pick Necropolis, because despite having decent guards, it's still difficult to assemble a significant army in the first week. But there was more hope in the Tant mage and the ability to keep all the skeletons from the start. However, both of my castles ended up being blocked. When breaking through to the first one through the Elves, Tant lost half of the 120 skeletons, and it was no longer possible to gather more than 50. And the opponent, arriving on day 115 through the Fortress of Order, killed any remaining hope. My teammate had a decent respawn rate, but it was already too late to stop the opponents who had gained momentum.
Thanks for the game and the experience
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Offline Vatya
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Posts: 986
#332
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Toganash
07/30/2013 (Vatya (Red, Flaks, random Lakus, Grinya) & Toganash (Brown, Tant, Tant ) lose (HellLighT (Blue, Castle, Valeska, Mullich) & Twaryna (Green, Citadel, Gurney)), Boombox, 121
Right from the start, I apologize for the late report and possible inaccuracies in the header, but the essence is correctly preserved: (Vatya & Toganash) lose (HellLighT & Twaryna).
It wasn't a very smart move to pick Necropolis, because despite having decent defenses, it's still difficult to assemble a significant army in the first week. But there was more hope in the Tant mage and the ability to keep all the skeletons from the start. However, both of my castles ended up being blocked. When breaking through to the first one through the Elves, Tant lost half of the 120 skeletons, and it was no longer possible to gather more than 50. And the opponent, arriving on day 115 through the Fortress of Order, killed any remaining hope. My teammate had a decent respawn rate, but it was already too late to stop the opponents who had gained momentum.
Thanks for the game and the experience.
Yeah, it was very difficult to counter an archer from the mercenary guild and Mullich. There was only one hope in Armageddon, but all that remained was hope... :)
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Offline HellLighT
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Posts: 2,462
#333
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30.07.2013 Kurne poka(Vatya (Red, Conflux, random Lacus, Grinya) & Toganash (Brown, Tant, Tant) lose Peka Generation (HellLighT (Blue, Castle, Valeska, Mullich) & Twaryna (Green, Citadel, Gurni) (), BoomBox, 122

Looks like we cleared all the rests. An interesting game with an elite refugee! We were pleased with the draw (except for the lack of 5 GM). The hut with a log near the main was dealt, and immediately 2 quests, one of which required a Bird of Luck, which was right next to Twaryna. About 20 marks were dealt, but a couple more of their external dwellings were found nearby. The last hero was Mullich, who immediately went to the folders. On 112 I clear the refuge, and there my dear ARCH awaits me! :D With it, cleanup became more fun. In both directions there were good ГО, simple nagas and trolls + hydras, and a fire maiden appeared in the tavern for Twaryna! And so the plan to exit on 116 was conceived (to avoid making a rest on the meeting), though in 5 turns neither a Griffin Conservatory nor a decent external dwelling was spotted, only one Dragon Fly Hive for 6 Wyverns. Oh well, at least Mullich leveled up like a king — offense, tactics, defense, of course the log from the hut + stable, and gloves + boots cleared from 2 respawns. Maximum possible speed without specialty = 3900 MP! We considered the necromancer more dangerous, and the path to him was more convenient (nagas) and closer, so after the moon ate almost the entire stack, Mullich bursts in on the necromancer at full speed, killing Tant along the way with a couple of artifacts, the loot in the form of 50 skeletons, and clears everything from the opponent's other heroes. He immediately grabs the Dragon Fly Hive near the road — minimum. A village with a 3rd GM and Mullich stops at the stable in anticipation of bursting into another respawn already with 3 Archangels, but then a throne Griffin Conservatory 3-4 is found, and next to it a Dragon Fly Hive deep in the respawn, which changes plans. Mullich goes to take it personally, immediately splitting to the lower village near the border with Conflux. An Archangel upgrade with joint efforts and resource trading, and waiting in full combat readiness. The next turn, both ГО fall in auto-battle, and Grindan's folder is killed on one bird near an untaken Griffin Conservatory. The rest of the loot on Tiraxore would have been covered there as well, but the opponents didn't drag it out. Thanks for the game.
p.s. After the game, I checked the elite refuge on the second week, where a golden dragon was faithfully waiting for me! ))
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,704
#334
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HellLighT
(so as not to schedule a rematch)
Oops, I forgot to mention that there are no rematches in this tournament. I'll add it to the rules.
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Offline HellLighT
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Posts: 2,462
#335
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Dirty_Player
Damn, I forgot to mention that there's no rematch in this tournament. I'll add it to the rules.
I'm going to kill you in November %( we've been waiting for the attack for the second game because of the stupid rematch))
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#336
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HellLighT
I'll kill you in November.
Just come, and we'll sort it out there :D

Added 2 minutes later
HellLighT
We've been waiting for the second game before the attack because of that stupid meeting reset.
The meeting reset is very likely and will delay things a lot, so it's better to remove it.
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Offline Redwhait
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Posts: 2,168
#337
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In my opinion, it's absurd to play with a boombox without a replay option after a match; essentially, one person gets an advantage, and others won't even have a chance to catch up. And, consequently, I'm against changing the rules after a month of the tournament.
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Offline Vatya
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Posts: 986
#338
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If I understand correctly, are we playing in the lower bracket with the romantics?
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Offline Wicc
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Posts: 5,092
#339
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Redwhait HP
In my opinion, it's absurd to play with rematches without a prior agreement; essentially, one person gets a chance, and others won't even have a chance to catch up. And, consequently, I'm against changing the rules after a month of the tournament.
Maybe think with your head before writing a post? :)

It's great to play well for 6 days, only to have a rematch after a match. Or, in a bad scenario, to look for a rematch. 2v2 games are organizationally more complex than 1v1, so this kind of pressure is unnecessary.
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Offline Redwhait
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#340
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Wicc
Shouldn't you think with your head before writing a post? :)

It's great to play for 6 days, only to restart after a match. Or, in a bad scenario, look for a rematch. 2v2 games are organizationally more complex than 1v1, so this kind of pressure is pointless.
If you don't want a rematch, just sit at home and win on the 117th turn. Even if the "Experienced" guild manages to put up a counter-guild, if they gave one side an advantage from the beginning and the other side has no chance of winning without a rematch, it essentially deprives them of a chance to compete in the match.
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