Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

Ban Kira, Dessa, and Gunnarr from running more than 2000 movement points!!!! This is cheating!!! They can use this to gain an extra 15,000 experience points!!!!

Ban Kreg and Tazik from leveling up their special abilities!!! Only allow them to level up their last skill, otherwise they're useless!!!

There are a lot of unbanned heroes who are just as overpowered, but in their own way. Ban them all and just play as non-magic units!!!

Sir, did you perhaps get a bit overheated in the sun during your vacation? :)

I didn't get overheated in the sun; on the contrary, the fresh sea air invigorated my mind. :)
What I wrote, I wrote completely seriously.
This reminds me of a topic that flared up some time ago regarding the rest period for a unit – back then, several pages were filled with pointless chatter, with heated arguments about how to properly define it: is the rest period per unit or not? But in reality (from which, unfortunately, most of our theorists are far removed), everything is much simpler and more prosaic. There has never been a game where misunderstanding the strength of a unit caused any inconvenience (perhaps there were isolated cases, but that's just a tiny fraction).
I'm talking about freeing Izra and Vidomina from prison, not about a complete unban. How often do you actually free them? How often, when freeing them, do they have a set of skills, mysticism, etc.? And banning specialists at level 4 is a long-outdated topic. Heroes players are very afraid to change anything, they are afraid to try something new; they will use Galtran, Luna, Grindan, etc. for the hundredth time, but a specialist with Meteor Shower – no way, Izra and Vidomina at level 20 freed from prison – ban. Of course, it's better to learn incomprehensible rules that span half a page than to think a little and discard all this outdated nonsense.

Discussion is good, but who will make the decision and when, and will there be a vote?

I am talking about the freed Izra and Vidomina from the prison, not about their complete unban. How often did you even free them?

I am generally surprised that one needs to consider the percentage of their possible presence in prison. One should consider those cases when they appeared (for example, level 5 in the first week). Is it really not clear that in this case the player gets a huge advantage over the opponent? The same Kyrre on movement can simply run around empty treasuries, while Necros don't care where to collect skeletons — they are everywhere.

And the ban of specialists at level 4 is a long-outdated topic. Hero players are very afraid to change anything, afraid to try something new; they will use the allowed Galtran, Luna, Grindan, etc. for the hundredth time, but a specialist in Meteor Shower — no no, Izra and Vidomina level 20 from prison — banned.

Why would it be outdated. On the contrary, now players have become stronger on average than before; almost every novice already knows how to use the available advantages after watching streams. Very often there are games where in a fight of low-tier units you cannot cope with the opponent's low-tier mages, whose shooter doesn't let you live in peace, and on top of that there are specialists in level 4 magic. We introduce a significant part of the imbalance by changing the rules in this direction.

Hero players are very afraid to change anything, afraid to try something new...

And why change anything if these changes are not obvious? Stability is much better than diving into the rules and looking for something to change there.

The only rule that is, in my opinion, biased and unfair is the complete ban of Hill Fort.

I proposed in my time to allow using the Hill Fort on those creatures whose upgrades are built in controlled castles (so that after building the upgrade, you don't have to take them home as a must, or if you have little gold, you can buy the basic ones, and upgrade them on the way in the fort the next day or the day after). So one has Town Portal and easily upgrades everything in leaps, but here sometimes they don't get Town Portal, and if you are lucky with the fort, you can at least counter the replenishment of the army somehow... I really don't understand why you can't upgrade in the fort if you built the upgrade yourself in the castle or found it in a captured one. This is a completely unjustified ban of the fort. The changes written above are 100500 times more serious!

I propose to reconsider once again this wording of the rules for the fort:

In the Hill Fort, it is allowed to upgrade those creatures whose dwelling upgrades are built in controlled castles.

P.S. In the voting, the votes of people who have been on HeroesWorld for at least half a year or a year should be counted. Serious changes to the forum rules should not be decided by novices. Moreover, for them to take effect, you need to collect about 70% of the votes; otherwise, the adoption of changes will be questionable, and 70% of the votes will precisely be an indicator that the changes are obviously needed.

Or maybe it would be worth changing the rules for one season, collecting statistics, comparing them with previous ones, and making a qualitative assessment of whether there is actually an imbalance. And, taking into account all of the above, formulate a final decision.

I agree with numOne regarding Mullich, Isra, and Vidomina. Excellent wording. The minuscule chance that an opponent will capture a level 5 Isra or Vidomina in prison can be safely ignored. Regarding the "Magic Specialists" rule, I generally agree, but it's also possible to leave this rule unchanged.

Added 1 minute ago

Perhaps we should change the rules for one season, collect statistics, compare them with previous seasons, and qualitatively assess whether a real imbalance exists. Taking all of the above into account, we can then formulate a final decision.

Of course, if the changes don't appeal to everyone, we can always revert them. There's nothing stopping us from experimenting.

Yes, it would be a good idea to introduce this formulation and test it out for about six months. And only then hold a vote (if necessary).

Specifically for R55Max:
Doesn't the Moon, which breaks the game with units having only 1 attack on the first week, bother you? Doesn't Grindan, who often gets a large amount of mana on turn 111, bother you? Does a level 5 Izra/Vidomina from the Dungeon (whose chance of finding is simply minimal) scare you, but not Galtran, which can be used without any restrictions for almost any castle? Come to your senses.

Regarding specialists at level 4. I definitely believe that they should be unbanned on all standard templates of level L and higher. On level M templates, they should be banned. Believe me, mass slow and mass haste are much scarier than this meteor shower. And Solmyr himself is a rather weak hero: his stats are poor, and almost all points go into intelligence, and he is countered by tactics easily, just like the meteor shower units.
Why doesn't it bother you that the game is called Heroes of Might and Magic, but we only have the sword? Aren't the sphere and the cloak of repentance enough for you? I personally feel bad for the mages.

I agree about the hill fort; I've felt the same way for a long time.
The hill fort allows you to upgrade those creatures whose dwelling upgrades have been built in controlled castles.
In this case, the fort would be a cheaper and, in some cases, more convenient upgrade option, which would justify its value as an object.

I'm not sure about Iskra and Vidomina; on the one hand, their flaws certainly won't allow them to become main heroes, but on the other hand, it's a really significant bonus to the number of bones in the Fortress of Bones, especially on Hard and Expert difficulties.

I never thought about Mullich; I think he could be unbanned, as he is unbanned in the Versus Community League, and you can't even start with him.

Regarding the level 4 specialists: yes, they don't really matter on Hard difficulty. But besides Hard, there are also Easy and Medium difficulty maps. On the same custom map, an early encounter in the second week with Solmyr with, say, 6 specialists and 2-3 Lightning spells can end very badly. On Medium difficulty maps, mages are much stronger than warriors in general, and level 4 specialists are especially so, even with the existing conditions for building a guild; they are very difficult to counter.

In the Fortress on the hill, you can upgrade those creatures whose dwelling improvements have been built in controlled Castles.

Then this phrase should be interpreted as: "In the Fortress on the hill, you can upgrade those creatures whose dwelling improvements have been built in controlled Castles at the time of upgrading them in the Fortress."

By the way, I have another suggestion. Just a couple of days ago, in one amusing game, I found panic on the early stages of the second scroll of DD and Flight. Even though, in principle, they should be banned there. A similar situation recently occurred in OFB with Vova and Cobra, if I'm not mistaken. With the external market that is often available there, and mines, it's not difficult to build a Grand Master. I think that air control on panic and balance maps should definitely be banned, because on the same balance map, it allows you to easily fly into the treasure area even from the starting zone if they are located close to each other. And in general, it's practically impossible to counter control on these maps, considering the lack of swamps and relics.
I suggest banning the use of Flight, Angel Wings, and Dimensional Door on panic and balance maps and adding this to the rule amendments for these maps.

In my opinion, it would be easier for the people who organize tournaments, the judges, and those who have a certain influence on HW and understand the essence of the game to come together to make a decision and further "test" it, rather than endlessly discussing possible random bonuses of heroes that are now banned. Here, numOne has repeatedly written that logistics experts and specialists in armor/offense are no less "overpowered" than the banned heroes, and this is a fact. Those same skeletons will essentially only be decisive in the late game; on weeks 2-3, they don't pose a significant threat, unlike logistics experts or armor specialists, who will have gathered what they need by that time and come after you. Specialists in 4 magic are also undeservedly excluded from the game. And if we're going to play with randomness, why exclude these elements of randomness if they aren't overpowered?

I agree with unbanning level 4 specialists, excluding the standard templates. Let them roam freely. Also, I support unbanning Myulich from the Jebus dungeons. Overall, I think this is a significant bonus – starting with +2 speed is quite advantageous. And in general, any heroes released from the Jebus dungeons. So, the wording should be: any heroes released from the Jebus dungeons can be used without restrictions. Regarding the healing fort, I support using already built dwelling upgrades in controlled castles. It provides some benefit.

The "Anarchy" tournament series quite clearly demonstrated which elements are gameplay-defining, i.e., overpowered, and which are not. Overpowered elements that significantly distort gameplay: 1) Necropolis hero > all 2) Diplomacy > all, except for point 1 3) Free Scroll of Death Dealer/Fly - a reason to play a tight map 4) Cartographer - a reason to win a moderately tight map That's basically it; the impact of all other banned elements on the outcome of the game does not exceed the typical unevenness of the map. Various Solmyras and Dimers are mainly needed in the first week to quickly defeat tough guards or to fight unpleasant archers. I don't remember anyone building a game strategy around them, and I've read a lot of reports...

The "Bezpredel" tournament series quite clearly demonstrated which elements are gameplay-defining, i.e., overpowered, and which are not.

Overpowered elements that seriously distort gameplay:

1) Necropolis hero > all

2) Diplomacy skill > all except for point 1

3) Free Scroll of Death Dealer/Fly - a reason to play a difficult map

4) Cartographer skill - a reason to win a moderately difficult map

That's basically it; the influence of all other banned elements on the outcome of the game does not exceed the typical unevenness of the map.

Various Solmyra-Dimers are mainly needed in the first week to quickly defeat tough guards or fight unpleasant archers. I don't remember anyone building a strategy around them, and I've read a lot of reports...

And what about upgrading Phoenixes?

What about upgrading Phoenixes?

Or even Moners! What's the big deal?