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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

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In reply to rebellious
Offline Podli
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#1346
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rebellious
Who cares about this Vidomina? It's just another faction. It's like SoD with its merciless randomness.
Yeah. As already mentioned, in Warlords, Necropolis remains a very strong faction even without the Necromancy skill. So what if it randomly generates 500 extra skeletons for the Fortress? It happens :D
The main advantage of Necropolis is the free skeletons. You need to acquire Elixirs, Provisions, and Utopias. Skeletons, on the other hand, appear out of thin air.
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In reply to Pit for LM
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Offline Сатир
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#1348
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You can only squeeze 30 levels out of Izru by playing him in the center. Anyone who has played Jebus even once will prefer a hero with experience offense instead of such an Izru.
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

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Offline Wicc
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#1349
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Chingis
regarding Izra.

Freeing a level 5 Izra with Necromancer experience from the Dungeon is overpowered; freeing a level 30 Izra is super overpowered.
So, they'll ban the overpowered one, but leave the super overpowered one. Is that the joke?
A level 5 Izra is overpowered, while a level 30 Izra is just a regular hero. Try to figure out why yourself.
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Offline Juristis
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#1350
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Chingis

please, explain it to me. I don't have enough brainpower to understand it yet.
What's so hard to understand? Besides Jebus, there are dozens of other templates. In HL+U, getting a level 5 Isra out of prison on day 111 is more impressive than any logistics expert or weaponsmith. Unless Galtran is more powerful.
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In reply to Dima Surmay
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Offline Wicc
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#1351
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Dima Surmay
I'm not very good at playing.
Dima Surmay
So I'll definitely lose.
Once, during a chess game analysis, one person said something like: "In this position, Qb6 is the only move. However, it also leads to a loss."

To which it was rightly pointed out: "If it leads to a loss, then why is it the only move?"
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In reply to Podli
Offline rebellious
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#1352
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Podli
Yeah. As was already mentioned, in Wake of Gods Necromancers remain a very strong faction even without the Necromancy skill. So what if an extra 500 skeletons got randomly rolled to an FB - it happens to everyone :D
The main imba of Necromancers is the free skeletons. Dragon Fly Hives, refugee camps, utopias - they need to be taken. Skeletons, on the other hand, appear out of thin air.
And is Tower just as weak? And is the color red just as red? Or maybe, blood red? And where do Dragon Fly Hives, refugee camps, utopias come from? How much and with what do you pay for them?
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Offline Dirty_Player
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#1354
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Chingis
:). I think that at level 30, you pump up "cool" skills like scouting, treasurer, wizard, catapult, etc. But at level 5, you can level up more practical skills.
No, that's not right. You can unlock level 5 in the first week and build your game around it, while level 30 is unlocked when it's no longer relevant, and often your hero is already much stronger.
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In reply to Juristis
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Offline Vatya
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#1356
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Juristis
What's not clear here? Besides Jebus, there are dozens of other templates. Getting a level 5 Isra out of the dungeon on HL+U on day 111 is more impressive than any logistics expert or armorer. Unless Galtran is more powerful.
Why can't Isra be used, but Galtran can, if you think he's more powerful?
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In reply to Dirty_Player
Offline Maretti
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Posts: 1,260
#1357
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Dirty_Player
No, that's not quite right. Level 5 can be unlocked in the first week, and you can build your game around that, while level 30 is unlocked when it's no longer relevant, and often your hero is much stronger.

On Jebus, it often happens that players go in different directions and explore the two new areas. If you can send a level 30 Isra into a new area with a couple of Necromancer artifacts, you can have maybe 4k skeletons for Fortress Battles compared to 0. It's often possible to avoid Fortress Battles for a very long time.

I believe the Isra/Vido rule would work fine if you were allowed to attack with them but had to dismiss the skeletons. The risk of cheating is very small, in my opinion, and can be revealed if you save every day.

In my opinion, Sir Mulich is not overpowered and could be allowed without any problem. Starting with advanced leadership is not very good, and knights' secondary skills are not that impressive.
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In reply to Kluka
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Offline Redsnow
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#1358
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Here it is:
Kluka
I suggest adding the following points:

* When Sir Mullich, Izra, and Vidomina are freed from prison, they can be used without restrictions on the day of their release. Points 5.10.1 and 5.10.3 apply to them starting the next day.

* If Sir Mullich, Izra, or Vidomina are together with an enemy hero in a Portal or Underground Gate during an attack, it does not constitute a violation of the rules.

And even if he doesn't critically hit 300 skeletons that day, he can't be used afterward, so consider it like a Pandora's Box. I think it's fair gameplay.
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In reply to Pit for LM
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Offline numOne
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#1359
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Good that this issue was brought up, it's high time the rules were cleaned up.
We should immediately revise the entire block of rules on hero restrictions. Here's what's there now:

5.10.1. Sir Mullich of 3rd level or higher may not attack heroes, towns, garrisoned mines, or neutral monsters.
5.10.4. All 4th-level spell specialist heroes, as well as Thant (who has the 3rd-level spell Animate Dead) may use their specialized spells against an opponent when one of the following conditions is met:
a) The 4th level of the Mage Guild is built in any of the controlled castles (for Thant, the 3rd level is required). If your castles lack the required Mage Guild level, you must fully build the Mage Guild to all levels in any two castles you own. Visiting this castle with a hero is not mandatory. If the condition is met, it does not matter whether the castles with the built Mage Guild levels are subsequently controlled.
b) The corresponding spell has been obtained by any of your heroes from a Pandora's Box (even if that hero does not have sufficient Wisdom skill to learn the spell) or after visiting a Scholar, or a tome of the required magic school has been found;
c) For using Thant's specialized spell by any of your heroes, the Shrine of Magic Thought containing the Animate Dead spell has been found and visited.
*Against neutral monsters, as well as against the computer (if present on the map), 4th-level spell specialists and Thant may use their specialized spell without the above restrictions.
5.10.5. 4th-level spell specialists and Thant may pass their spells to other heroes, but until any of the conditions 5.10.4.a, b, or 5.10.4.c for Thant are met, these spells cannot be used against neutral monsters, the computer, or the opponent by the trained heroes.

I propose removing this block entirely and allowing full unrestricted play for all 4th-level specialists, Thant, and Mullich. This would slightly boost the underdog Tower on some templates, but overall would have virtually no impact on gameplay: practically no one would start with specialists on Meteor Shower, playing as Necropolis or Dungeon anyway, and the rest of the 4th-level heroes are hardly worth mentioning, same for Thant. Honestly, it's even a bit awkward that we still have such an inflated block of rules on such a trivial topic. Let's give the mages a chance. I also propose completely unbanning Mullich — after all, the Castle hero progression line is rather weak + Leadership from the start, and anyway, you can't start with them. In general, Mullich would almost always lose to top-tier heroes from other towns when it comes to deciding who to include in folders.
5.10.2. Izya and Vidomina are only allowed to upgrade the 'Sorcery' skill to 'Expert' level if it is the last skill offered. In this case, there are no further restrictions on use.
5.10.3. Izya and Vidomina who acquire the Expert Sorcery skill in a manner other than specified in clause 5.10.2. may not attack heroes, towns, garrisoned mines, or neutral monsters.

This, of course, is also archaic.
I partially agree with those who commented above that the overpoweredness of Izya and Vidomina from prison is greatly exaggerated; heroes like Greg/Taz or logistics specialists are almost always stronger (with very few exceptions). I also believe that rules should be changed only towards simplification and support the idea that familiar imbalanced elements, such as the Griffin Conservatory on Template 111, logistics specialists, Taz, convenient external dwellings, etc., have become so commonplace that they are simply overlooked, while with some ingrained, almost instinctive feeling, people still look back at the rules and reject things that are hardly comparable in power level.
Therefore, I propose reformulating the clause about Izya and Vidomina as follows:

Izya and Vidomina are only allowed to upgrade the 'Sorcery' skill to 'Expert' level if it is the last skill offered. If these heroes were freed from prison already possessing Expert 'Sorcery', they may be used without restrictions.

That is, it's clear that a 1st-level Izya and Vidomina from prison are no different from those bought in the tavern. In all other cases, we use them without restrictions; their overpoweredness will not increase significantly from this, and in some cases their advantage will be dubious altogether.

Regarding your other proposals:
- dismissing skeletons — as I've said many times before — this is complete nonsense, wasting precious time and creating a host of unpleasant nuances.
- allowing them to fight for only 1 day — bloats the rules and is not entirely fair from a strategic perspective. Again, there are minor random occurrences, such as attacks on lightly guarded enemy objects, which sometimes, at the opponent's will, could end in a technical loss, etc.

IN SUMMARY, the rules on hero restrictions should look like this:

5.10 Izya and Vidomina are only allowed to upgrade the 'Sorcery' skill to 'Expert' level if it is the last skill offered. If these heroes were freed from prison already possessing Expert 'Sorcery', they may be used without restrictions.

That's all.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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In reply to Pit for LM
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Offline numOne
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#1360
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Yes, it’s also worth adding a rule for the case of a schoolboy: if he accidentally levels up Necropolis to expert, then the hero can be used without restrictions. After all, the probability of this is very low, let it be a bonus.

IN TOTAL, taking into account the additions:

5.10 Izre and Vidomine are allowed to level up the “spellcasting” skill to the “expert” level only with the last proposed skill; otherwise, they must be dismissed on the same day. If these heroes were released from prison already with an “expert” level in “spellcasting”, and also if this skill was leveled up by a schoolboy, then they can be used without restrictions.
Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.
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In reply to numOne
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Offline Sevensan
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Posts: 1,791
#1361
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numOne

5.10 Izra and Vidomine are allowed to continue developing the "spellcasting" skill up to the "expert" level only with the last skill offered; otherwise, they must be dismissed on the same day. If these heroes were already released from prison with "expert" spellcasting, and also if this skill was developed while they were students, then they can be used without restrictions.

Izra, level 10: +15% Necromancy (45% total)
Izra, level 20: +30% Necromancy (60% total)
Izra, level 30: +45% Necromancy (75% total)

At level 10, consider adding Necromancy boots (level 10 is reached very quickly); at level 20, equip a full Necromancy set. I often played as Necromancer and believe me, this is a huge bonus. And what if you also have Necromancy artifacts? In the late game, this means 5,000 skeletons instead of 2,000. That's game over. And if you also have a powerful Ghost. Well, you can figure out the rest yourself.
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In reply to Pit for LM
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Offline R55Max
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Posts: 1,932
#1362
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To MumOne:

Sir, did you perhaps get a bit too much sun while you were on vacation? :)

And sometimes you can find Isra and Vidomina in the same faction.

You also shouldn't unban players who specialize in magic. There are many of them, and victory in a game often comes down to who has more of them! Especially when you meet them in the second week. A couple of clever spellcasters, and that's it. Although, if you manage to eliminate the Grand Wizards near the Rampart and the Marksmen near the Castle, then Isra or Vidomina will tear everything to shreds with haste or pass it on to Tantu so he can resurrect a few more :)

Why doesn't anyone play Anarchy? What's stopping you?
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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In reply to Pit for LM
Offline rebellious
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Posts: 1,257
#1363
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Sevensan, how often did you use skeleton summoners in the game? How often did you free Izru and Vidomina from prison? How often did you ultimately win by using Izru and Vidomina? Here, it is important to be specific in order to correlate the win rate of these necromancers with that of logisticians like Tazar and Craig.
Or, perhaps it would be fairer to stipulate that specialists – logisticians, armorers, and offensive units – should upgrade their special skill to the expert level last. And even then, their names will probably still appear frequently in the reports!
And as another option regarding these necromancers: allow them to practice necromancy as experts, for example, starting from the 3rd week (or on a specific day).
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