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DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

Online Tournaments
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In reply to Grando
Offline One_123
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Posts: 13
#1284
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Oldboy
The method is described clearly in section 5.10.2. Releasing from prison is a different method.

Releasing from prison is a different way to obtain a hero, not to grant an expert skill to a hero.

Regarding whether it is possible to use a level 30 Isra/Vido from the dungeon (since they have all skills maxed out), this needs to be included in the rules.
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In reply to Grando
Offline Dima Surmay
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Posts: 2,067
#1285
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Oldboy
Why do you think it's the last one? The method is clearly described in section 5.10.2. Releasing from prison is a different method.
It is also clearly stated about all other methods - if not 5.10.2, then you're out of luck.
And I'll repeat the "motivational part" - the essence of the rule is to limit overpowered strategies - releasing a hero from prison is much easier than developing him independently, so it makes sense to limit such a lucky break.

I don't fully agree with your two arguments, but I won't write more here, as I think it will only clutter the tournament.
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In reply to Juristis
Offline Maretti
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Posts: 1,260
#1286
You cant use a lvl 30 Isra from prison since she didnt get exp necro as last skill. And it makes good sense too, since she is totally overpowered at lvl 30.

What annoys me is that you are not allowed to make any fights at all with her. The rules should be that you can make figths but you have to dismiss all skeletons gained from the fights. The purpose of the rule is that you shouldnt get to many skeletons, not that you cant make simple scoutfights.
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In reply to Maretti
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Offline Dark
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Posts: 3,694
#1287
Maretti
You cant use a lvl 30 Isra from prison since she didnt get exp necro as last skill. And it makes good sense too, since she is totally overpowered at lvl 30.

What annoys me is that you are not allowed to make any fights at all with her. The rules should be that you can make figths but you have to dismiss all skeletons gained from the fights. The purpose of the rule is that you shouldnt get to many skeletons, not that you cant make simple scoutfights.
I agree with maretti:cool:

лето 2012.
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In reply to Juristis
Offline Grando
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Posts: 1,827
#1288
Thank, Maretti, you posted your point of view.

I hope it will help r55max to make next step with clarification of this rule.

Because now it's obvious - the rule is unclear for different people.
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In reply to Grando
Offline Iamsamstan
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Posts: 1,771
#1289
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The question of whether Izry or Vidomy is better is certainly interesting. I would suggest paying attention to the fact that, although these heroes are level 30, they only have about 30 skeletons. And this limitation on them, as I understand it, is due to the fact that they resurrect too many skeletons for experience in spellcasting. But this hero is already level 30 and has no skeletons, and besides, the guard at level 30 is quite decent. So, I don't think it's too easy to get her. Plus, her stats might be quite uneven. It's more interesting with level 20. At level 20, she will definitely have spellcasting developed. And then comes the most interesting part. You have to check what level she was freed at, although Izry and Vidomy at level 20 will have many more skeletons than at level 30, so it should be clear. So, I think it's up to the organizers of the tournament to decide whether to allow them or not, and if so, how. IMHO.
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In reply to Dirty_Player
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Offline Vatya
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Posts: 987
#1291
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Dirty_Player
Regarding Isra and Vidomina. A clarifying statement will appear in the rules soon.
I hope it will sound like this:
"Isra and Vidomina with the "Spellcasting" skill at the "Expert" level are required to dismiss all skeletons summoned after the battle.

Otherwise, let the grass not grow. If you want, you can give them Necromancer Expert at level 2...
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In reply to Juristis
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Offline GoD
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Posts: 739
#1292
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What will be the difference between "Isro and Vidomina attacking heroes, cities, and mines with a garrison of the opponent using expert spellcasting" and "Isro and Vidomina attacking heroes, cities, and mines with a garrison of the opponent using non-expert spellcasting"? When it comes to neutral creatures, everything is clear, and you can even dismiss all the skeletons raised with their help. But why is it different here? Sometimes, Isro and Vidomina will be at the end of the chain (or released from prison – and it doesn't matter which hero is in prison, even if it's Sraka – the mere presence of a hero is what matters), and they need to take or attack something. But it turns out that in some situations, I will be simply restricted by the rules, even though I could attack the opponent and win. In my opinion, it's some kind of nonsense...
"РЫЦАРЬ АПОКАЛИПСИСА"

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In reply to GoD
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Offline R55Max
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Posts: 1,963
#1293
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GoD
What will be the difference between "Isra and Vidomina attacking heroes, towns, and mines with a garrison of the opponent using expert-level magic" and "Isra and Vidomina attacking heroes, towns, and mines with a garrison of the opponent using non-expert-level magic"?

When it comes to neutral creatures, everything is clear, and you can even dismiss all the skeletons raised with their help. But why here? Sometimes, even these Isra and Vidomina will be at the end of the chain (or released from prison - and it doesn't matter which hero is in prison, even if it's Kraagor - the mere presence of a hero is what matters), and you need to use them to capture something or attack. But it turns out that in some situations, I will be simply restricted by the rules, even though I can attack the opponent and win. In my opinion, it's some kind of nonsense...

The difference lies in the number of skeletons raised with different levels of magic. Essentially, when this rule was introduced, it completely prohibited these two heroes from using Necromancy to avoid cheating, which is very, very difficult to check. With expert-level magic, she will raise more skeletons.

Imagine a situation where, for example, it's the 4th week, your main hero is Galtron, and Isra and Vidomina are also in the chain, and maybe even a couple more Necromancers. The game itself ends somewhere around 222. During some confusing and complex turns, you can cheat by not deleting skeletons or deleting fewer of them. Imagine you have hidden peasants, converters, a bunch of different castles, and a lot of resources for skeletons, many battles on the move, etc. It will be extremely difficult to track the Necromancer, and it turns out that you have to track all the moves when Isra and Vidomina appear with someone.

You are already restricted by the rules: you can't create 2 damage dealers, use scrolls without a Grand Master, and you can continue indefinitely.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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In reply to GoD
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,094
#1294
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GoD
It turns out that in some situations, I will be simply restricted by the rules, even though I could attack the opponent and win. In my opinion, it's some kind of nonsense...
I completely agree with this. Sometimes there is a situation where you are counting on a hero from the dungeon, and then suddenly it's some Исра or Sir Mullich, and all plans are disrupted, and the game can be lost. Such situations should not happen.

Added 1 minute ago
R55Max
You are already bound by the rules: you can't make 2 damage dealers, use scrolls without a Grand Master, and you can't continue indefinitely.
You're mixing things up. If I'm going to get the Air book, I know what I can do with it later, and what I can't. But in the case of a hero from the dungeon, it's like a cat in a bag.
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In reply to Juristis
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Offline Dark
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Posts: 3,694
#1295
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I agree with Dirty. For example, you build a chain where the plan is to have a hero from the Dungeon faction attack your main hero while he's leveling up. Then the question arises: you've sacrificed all your other heroes, leaving only one hero who frees the Dungeon, but there's an Israelite hero there who can't attack! And what do you do with the army? Leave it so the opponent can take their army and punish you?!

лето 2012.
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In reply to Dark
Offline Niemand
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Posts: 4,419
#1296
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For example, you can dismiss all skeletons while Vidomina/Isra, freed from the dungeon, gains enough experience to reach level 22.
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In reply to Dirty_Player
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Offline R55Max
Registered:
Posts: 1,963
#1297
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Dirty_Player
I completely agree with this. Sometimes, you're counting on a hero from the dungeon, and then suddenly, it's Isra or Sir Mullich, and all your plans are ruined; the game might be lost. This shouldn't happen.

Added 1 minute ago

You're confusing things. If I'm going to get the Air book, I know what I can do with it later and what I can't. But with a hero from the dungeon, it's like a gamble.
How did you start talking like that? When you go to break into the dungeon in TetA, do you always think that there will be a perfectly upgraded hero there, one that is absolutely suitable for your purposes (having the right skills)? Or maybe you know their name in advance?

Personally, I don't agree with God or you that it's more important to allow Isra and Vidomina (in any form) to act than to eliminate the possibility of cheating with Necromancy.

And in general, you should post your suggestions for editing the rules elsewhere! Who knows who agrees or disagrees with whom. Everyone can see that there is an oversight in the wording of the rules. Until the rules are changed, the interpretation above will apply.

Added 7 minutes ago
GoedenDag
For example, you can dismiss all the skeletons while the Vidomina/Isra released from the dungeon levels up to level 22.
Dear sir, you can dismiss skeletons from the very beginning, but there will always be situations where the opponent will cheat by not dismissing them all or dismissing only some. That's why these Necromancers were banned. You won't calculate the opponent's skeletons every turn.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
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In reply to Juristis
Offline theShevanesian
Registered:
Posts: 1,098
#1298
Auto-translated
Dismiss the skeletons raised by Isra or Vidomina, and that's it. There's no need to overcomplicate things. You can save the game before each battle and after each battle, taking these heroes into account.
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