Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments. — Tournament Committee

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 6/27/2008 4:31 AM UTC

Posts: 1,541

2/10/2013 6:18 AM UTC #746

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Samurai

Lately, the Heroes III section on HW resembles a wolf pack in the forest. This pack, endowed with various powers such as moderation or a seat in the AC, mutually supporting their like-minded members, is just waiting for the slightest pretext to deal with those who hold alternative opinions and are too weak to put up strong resistance. Soon they will tear apart all such people, gradually and one by one.
Moreover, they resort to direct insults like this:
I won’t quote how they insulted VLK in plain text — you can read it yourself, and it all went unpunished.
The same VLK gets blacklisted for false accusations of cheating (when he didn’t specifically name who he accused), while Yavdeta, an obvious like-minded ally, is easily forgiven for false accusations against a specific person involving outright save file forgery.
Often many people (PREDs, Albertas, Lizard, and others) point out issues with the work of the AC or some moderators, yet the main “mouthpiece” of this pack completely ignores it:
:rolleyes:
And sooner or later this pack will pounce on Albertas, Lizard, me, or others, given just a reason. But they will never dare attack the same PREDs, no matter how much he swears here and mocks them with various screenshots (remember the Alex affair? ;) ), because fathers like Stinger will stand up for PREDs.

Keep burning them :smile12:
I’d gladly give you my seat in the AC right now, with great pleasure. Are you ready to drive away this wolf pack and make the Heroes III section better and fairer?

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to StickyFingaz

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Registered: 4/29/2007 10:30 AM UTC

Posts: 11,704

2/10/2013 6:49 AM UTC #747

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StickyFingaz

Samurai, I found an avatar for you here.

I think it suits him :D

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 11/23/2007 11:24 AM UTC

Posts: 1,249

2/10/2013 7:53 AM UTC #748

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What a chubby hippo :)

Seriously, around 200 people play Heroes on the World of Xeen server... very few of them raise suspicions of cheating... maybe 10 people at most... the rest are mentally stable and have their priorities straight, I think.
Oelma was suspected before, and Pete even provided links.

As for Predsa... let him act up (as I sometimes do), but everyone knows him personally and knows that he's a good person, a fun guy to be around.
Those who hide in real life and only act like "heroes" in the virtual world will continue to raise suspicions and earn disrespect.
By the way, I liked how Katerina handled it... she cheated, but she came to Yekaterinburg, and everything became fine.

Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 12/23/2011 8:08 AM UTC

Posts: 2,462

2/10/2013 7:58 AM UTC #749

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In this regard, I liked Katerina. She cheated a bit, but then came to Yekaterinburg, and everything became great.

What an ambiguous phrase :smile52:

In reply to HellLighT

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Registered: 12/10/2012 3:41 PM UTC

Posts: 238

2/10/2013 8:10 AM UTC #750

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I have reviewed the materials related to the situation. With all due respect, Oelm was not allowed to load saves in single-player mode; the fair play rule, which prohibits loading saves in an unfinished game, logically implies that any loading should be excluded. This rule exists on every portal. And to use it differently is unfair. That's why there is a timer, to give players the opportunity to make moves and think through their strategy within the allotted time. Or play on unranked if the timer is not enough for everything. Moving heroes in an unfinished single-player game is also an unfair action: in this way, you can find out, check where how many of what are, what was lying around, etc. This decides the game. It's a pity that a player like Oelm treats this differently. Samurai, so you are encouraging such gameplay? Maybe you do the same? Your AK commission was created to deal with such problems. It's like an elected body; you chose it, so you have to live with it. If you don't like it, move to another portal. But believe me, you won't find understanding regarding this situation anywhere else. Everywhere, the rules are much stricter, and the attitude towards them is too.

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 1/7/2010 6:51 PM UTC

Posts: 2,124

2/10/2013 3:24 PM UTC #751

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By the way, here's a rhetorical question that, it seems, no one has asked yet:
Oelm, Samurai, if you're playing against an opponent and you strongly suspect that they are cheating - what do you feel at that moment? Does it make you happy? Do you want to continue playing with this person? Do you want to have a pleasant conversation with them about other topics?

Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)

In reply to favio

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Registered: 3/8/2009 12:54 AM UTC

Posts: 432

2/10/2013 3:25 PM UTC #752

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I believe Oelm was rightfully punished. My attitude towards Vigo and VLK is even worse. I'm talking about methods of pressure, the permissiveness of some, and the infringement of the rights of others. Oelm is being judged for opening save files, they are waiting for answers, and when they receive answers (even if not the ones they expected), they immediately insult him. Now, if he's a cheater, is it okay to humiliate him as a person on the forum? The same thing happened with Vigo and VLK. I've already given other examples.

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 6/27/2008 4:31 AM UTC

Posts: 1,541

2/10/2013 3:36 PM UTC #753

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Samurai

I believe Oelm was justly punished. My attitude towards Vigo and VLK is even worse.
I'm talking about methods of pressure, the permissiveness of some, and the infringement of the rights of others.
They judge OELM for opening save files, they wait for answers, and when they receive answers (even if not the ones they expected), they immediately insult him. Now that he's supposedly a cheater, is it okay to humiliate him as a person on the forum? The same thing happened with Vigo and VLK. I've already given other examples.

Lol. Well, it seems you're only reading selectively. Right before that, he accused AK of lying without any basis and, in almost every argument, resorts to personal attacks, allowing himself to use expressions that could easily lead to a physical confrontation in real life. He doesn't even get points on the forum for this (if you don't count old offenses), and no one shuts his mouth, but you're talking about some kind of oppression. He was banned for violating the forum rules, which he himself admitted, and he was rightly called a liar; there's no need to dramatize.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 6/7/2007 3:41 AM UTC

Posts: 1,523

2/10/2013 3:43 PM UTC #754

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factions, gang wars – that’s what I’m talking about! Let’s have more!
Samurai, we need to create a Wargame analogue of the AK and call it AA. No one can beat their 93% dominance!

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 3/18/2008 7:49 PM UTC

Posts: 3,172

2/10/2013 4:27 PM UTC #755

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Samurai

We're talking about methods of exerting pressure, the permissiveness of some, and the infringement of the rights of others.

:D Well, it's not a forum for freeloaders, but a totalitarian regime with KGB dungeons...

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 10/16/2007 6:22 AM UTC

Posts: 3,358

2/10/2013 5:00 PM UTC #756

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What's with the hostility towards the guy? So what if he loaded a save in single-player and spent some time thinking. He explored with different heroes, checked which armies work well against others, and what units to deploy.

That's perfectly normal!

You're talking about offline play? And that's not allowed? It is!

That's what the "doigrovka" feature is for.

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 11/27/2007 1:22 PM UTC

Posts: 5,092

2/10/2013 7:42 PM UTC #757

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And in general, it would be good to have something like in chess before – they would play up to the 40th move, pause, analyze it further at home, and then continue.

In reply to Wicc

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Registered: 12/10/2012 3:41 PM UTC

Posts: 238

2/11/2013 4:34 AM UTC #758

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In chess, you can see the entire board, the entire layout, and all the pieces. It's like playing with an open map in Heroes, then it's easier to resolve the map, and that's it :D

It won't work... why reinvent the wheel when it already exists?

In reply to Wicc

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Registered: 3/20/2006 3:14 PM UTC

Posts: 2,002

2/11/2013 8:17 AM UTC #759

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Lider1

Why are you attacking this person? So what if he loaded a save in single-player and thought about it a bit? He walked around with the heroes, checked which armies work against which, and what units are effective.

That's normal! (s)

You're talking about offline play? And that's not allowed? It is!

That's what replay mode is for:cool:

Wicc

And in general, it would be good to have something like in chess back in the day - play up to move 40, pause, analyze at home, and continue.

It would probably be a good idea to have a tournament like that. Mandatory pausing after, say, move 117, and analysis. Then detailed reports with the save at move 117 and the final result. If players recorded the main ideas of the analysis at move 117 (and not after the game) - it would be very interesting to see how much the analysis was adjusted by the real situation.

And why isn't there a tournament on HW like "Anarchy"? It would be interesting. The fewer rules, the better the game.

Орден Феникса – харизматический :) лидер

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 11/27/2007 1:22 PM UTC

Posts: 5,092

2/11/2013 8:47 AM UTC #760

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The logical conclusion of this idea is an analogue of chess "advancers," that is, players who can use chess programs to assist them during games.

This would look something like this: there are 3 restarts allowed on the first day (no further restarts are allowed), and the player must notify within 10 minutes of the start of their turn whether they will use this option (the turn itself may continue longer).

Unveiling the map and launching a second copy of Heroes is allowed, with the only restriction being that all of this is prohibited while the timer is paused (to avoid excessively prolonging the game). That is, if the opponent has passed their turn, it must be accepted immediately, and it is also not allowed to explore the terrain during a computer-controlled transition or during a battle with another player.

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