Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

We need a clear statement:
Streaming is allowed in any case! However, the streamer is responsible for any hints from viewers; that is, if there are "critical hints," it will be considered a technical loss. Communication with viewers can be managed – in TeamViewer, allow only selected individuals to write, and simply ban users in chat for providing hints and spoilers.

What exactly constitutes a "critical hint"? Can you define it?! And who will monitor them?

Streaming is allowed in any case! However, the streamer is responsible for hints from viewers, i.e., if there are "critical hints," then that counts as a tech loss.

Well, in that case, the craftiest and most insidious opponents will deliberately start joining the stream and posting these "critical hints" under a different nickname in order to hand themselves a tech win. Who needs that? There's no hiding from hints on a stream! They can range from simple "pick up that pile of gold" or "there might be a sawmill below" to a step-by-step guide on taking a Dragon Utopia... I think a smart person won't interfere in other people's games and will just watch quietly.

What exactly is a "critical hint"? Can you define it?! And who will monitor them?

Something like this: a player wanted to make an obviously disadvantageous move, but the chat convinced him and suggested another move that led to victory (and this should be not just one hint, but at least 2-3), the opponent should monitor this and then provide the judge with a "second-by-second breakdown," so to speak.

P.S. In general, 99% of chat hints are nonsense, or at least equivalent moves.

I only agree with the 4th point, although, in general, it's more of a moral and ethical issue than a gameplay one. Trolls can be easily banned, although it's even more fun to deal with them, lol.
And if someone reminds me again that I'm a noob, it will only be beneficial: D

And I’ll add something else here, since I’ve already started.
You are now trying to restrict the rights of streamers, and, in principle, to eliminate streams altogether, but you apparently don’t realize that it is the streams that promote the Heroes community, attracting new people to the game and maintaining interest among “experienced” players. Moreover, a streamer already risks the fact that his opponent may come to watch his stream unnoticed; if you want to expose them even more, then please, go ahead, but you won’t succeed. Starting with the fact that it will be practically impossible to control the streams...

Thank you, Pit, for raising this issue to a serious level, as anyone could find themselves in a similarly unpleasant situation.

After reading all the posts, I conclude that there is currently no better solution than a simple rule requiring streamers to request permission from their opponent before broadcasting, with all the consequences that entails – that is, flooding, distracting the streamer, providing hints, spamming, all from viewers. It is not clear how to prevent the streamer from suffering from viewers. Rules of conduct don't seem like a good idea; this isn't a kindergarten or school.

Indeed, broadcasts and streams make the game come alive.

that is, flooding the chat, distracting the streamer, giving hints, spamming – all of this comes from viewers. It’s not at all clear how to prevent the streamer from suffering because of the viewers.

Teamviewer allows you to disable viewer interference in the broadcast... surely other programs also have such settings.

Slightly off-topic, but I'll chime in: a fairly large tournament is currently underway on Wargaming.net, and the rules require both players to stream their games (if a player disconnects during a game without streaming, it's automatically considered a loss).

It's unrealistic to require everyone to stream. Many people don't have the ability to stream for various reasons. For example, if I'm playing from work, I have a daily limit of 300MB, and I won't be able to stay within that limit. Also, a 3G modem can only handle 2-3 frames per minute.

And as the experience of this tournament showed, mutual streaming doesn't guarantee that neither player will disconnect in the final match.

I don’t fundamentally understand the problem. For example, F streams, someone gives him "pro" tips, and he starts carrying incredibly. His opponent L goes to his stream, gets all the necessary info, and quietly leaves. After a shameful defeat, L writes: "But you were streaming, you dirty cheater :smile04:" F gets a technical loss for vile cheating and CHE, while L... :smile44:
But seriously, a streamer clearly puts themselves at more risk than any other player, and option 4 suits me much better. I’ve streamed a lot and never had any complaints, but because of one person feeling slighted, everything gets turned upside down :confused: Wouldn’t it be simpler to handle this on an individual basis with non-Russian-speaking players? For example, I don’t know any player from the CIS who would be against a trans...

Rules for viewers are unnecessary — 70% don’t even visit HeroesWorld, let alone find rules there... Besides, the streamer themselves should keep an eye on the stream atmosphere. But a two-way stream is a problem, and that’s worth thinking about

I believe that streams greatly contribute to the development of the Heroes community.

The discussion was a joke. Cheating streamers, hints are decisive, you need to ask the opponent for permission because their copyright is being violated, technical losses for hints, and so on and so forth. Do you even realize what kind of nonsense you're writing?

First of all, we need to distinguish between "streams" and "broadcasts." These are "slightly" different things. Equating a full-fledged multi-hour stream for a large audience with a lagging broadcast for 10 people without commentary is stupid, to say the least. And that's exactly what's happening here—everything is being lumped together.

A streamer handles a huge workflow during the game (besides the game itself); their attention is scattered, and it's much harder to maintain concentration and stay sharp. If there is active live communication in the chat (like on my stream, for example), various tips, hints, and "expert" opinions are inevitable. Ranging from: pick up the stones, upgrade the fairies, take the Dragon Utopia, to actually useful advice: you missed a stack or a building somewhere, etc. When important battles or FB occur, the flow of advice is like Niagara Falls. Every active viewer has their own expert opinion and rushes to share it. As a rule, 95% of it is filler, and extracting a truly useful tip is very difficult. And no one is even looking for these tips. Usually, the chat is read between turns. Whether hints help or actually distract is a matter of perspective. But it's certain that the streamer is not in a more advantageous position, at the very least.

When I started streaming RTA 5x Heroes 2.5 years ago, there were exactly the same discussions. That if the opponent is against it, you can't stream; that hints are decisive. In the end, there was an equally heated community discussion and a decision that the problem wasn't worth a single cent, and naturally, no bans appeared. But it was easier back then because my level of play personally was very high and hints didn't matter at all.

I won't go into how much influence streams have on the development and popularization of Heroes; that's obvious anyway. I'll only say that in its time, it was exactly streams that brought back my interest in Heroes 5, and exactly streams that lured me into Heroes 3. And it is exactly streams that maintain interest in the game. All of my games without exception are streamed; I simply see no point or interest in playing games without a stream.

This isn't a solution, it will only slightly reduce the problem. Important info from the chat can be received during the opponent's turn as well. And the timer doesn't apply to the finale at all. Yet in the finale, you can get key advice from a viewer who sees the stream from both sides. In the finale with Tvaryna, out of one hour, about 2/3 was spent on his consultation with the chat and reading fizmig)))) A solution would be if another timer were added specifically for finales))

And what happened in the end? Did Tvaryna use a useful hint and win the battle? No, Tvaryna struggled for a long time, thought it over, and ultimately lost the battle. Due to lack of experience. Just like the game at M200 last year, where experience was also lacking. Now I would have won that battle with Moon. Experience is what matters, not hints. And as for time—well, experience matters there too. Personally, I play faster and faster with every game. At least it seems to me. Well, a chess timer is definitely needed. I hope everything is heading that way.

In essence:
1. It is absolutely unnecessary to ban or somehow regulate streams (asking the opponent's permission). Moreover, this should be supported and promoted.
2. The opponent is forbidden from watching the stream (this is obvious anyway and relies on trust, but it's still worth adding such a point to the rules).

Sorry for the rambling; I don't know how to and don't like writing such walls of text. :D

In my opinion, there’s no need to ban or restrict anything regarding streams. Perhaps only specify that hints from viewers of BOTH streams are prohibited. I believe that such “gifts” are not needed by the opponent, and this can be equated to cheating. In the community, it is only necessary to add a timer for battles and a timer for battles between opponents, because these multi-hour finals against a collective mind are exhausting.

Some kind of fantastical nonsense, by god.
Intellectual property? Hints from chat? (facepalm)

Read what experienced streamers write, and close the topic on that.
Otherwise, I see a bunch of theorists have flocked here with their own rules and authoritative opinions, who most likely have never even laid eyes on an exploit.

p.s. You’d better thank the streamers, because it’s thanks to them that both Heroes 3 as a whole and the HeroesWorld portal have seen such an influx of new players/viewers.
p.s.s. Dedicated to everyone who thinks that a broadcast on TV is a full-fledged broadcast and no different from a stream.

A streamer has a huge workload during gameplay (in addition to the game itself); their attention is scattered, making it much harder to maintain focus and stay sharp.
+1 for those who think this is overpowered – try streaming your game (a full 8-hour session) while constantly monitoring the chat and remembering to comment continuously, rather than just making a comment every 5 minutes, and then we'll see if you still have enough time and concentration...