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Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”
No need for this nonsense about broadcasts. This is clearly going too far, and frankly, without broadcasts, my interest in the game will decrease by a few points. Mutual consent isn't needed for broadcasts; the broadcasts themselves are distracting. Rules are needed not for streamers, but for viewers. And the fact that this is our common property, copyright, and other nonsense... Do you have licensed versions of the game? Windows? Office? And so on. Let's not be hypocritical and turn HW into some kind of concentration camp.
P.S. It would be better to remove the notes about broadcasts right now, as this is causing confusion and distress among the Heroes community.
There is no way to control the broadcasts. The best option is to play in HD+ and decide for yourself whether to stream it to the forum or not. Plus, the discussion will take place during the stream, and I think it will be difficult to identify specific moments. 5. Viewers are not allowed to give advice to the player during the game, draw their attention to any moments that the player has not noticed, or direct their actions.
2. Players participating in a match are prohibited from watching their opponent's stream during the game, and if the match is postponed, they are prohibited from watching the opponent's recorded stream until the match is over.
So, it's like you hid the saves, but realized that wasn't enough and decided to read them with extra cynicism and even watch the stream (recorded)? Or is it more like, "What saves did you hide? No, I just watched the stream":smile52:
There's no way to control broadcasts. The best approach is to play in HD+ and decide for yourself whether to stream it to the forum or not. Plus, there will be discussions during the stream, and I think it will be difficult to identify specific moments. 5. Viewers are not allowed to give advice to the streaming player during the game, draw their attention to any unnoticed moments, or direct their actions.
We need a formulation like this: Streaming is allowed in any case! But the streamer is responsible for any hints from viewers, i.e., if there are "critical hints," then it will be considered a technical loss. You can manage conversations with viewers – allow only selected people to write in TeamViewer, and simply ban those who give hints or spoilers in various chat rooms.
But mutually agreed-upon broadcasts are complete nonsense!
So, it's like he revealed the saves, but then realized that wasn't enough and decided to read them with a special kind of cynicism, and even watched a recorded stream??? Or is it more like, "Why did you reveal the saves?" "No, I just watched the stream":smile52:
And that's exactly what happened. And there's nothing funny about it. The player watched the opponent's stream and explained it like this:
There was an announcement for everyone - "Here, take a look," so I started watching... There was nothing said that I wasn't allowed to...
I've written a draft, let's discuss it. I've highlighted the clarifications in red.
Section Fair Play:
And a section regulating various situations in the game:
Next, about Broadcasts. This is all very raw. Let's think about it together.
Rules for HoMM3 Broadcasts.
Based on the discussion in the thread about TheVinz, we seem to be leaning towards the first option.
I believe that all players are well aware of those who consistently broadcast, and if your opponent doesn't want their game to be broadcast from your side, they should simply let you know.
Periodically, when discussing maphack issues, we have the suggestion to introduce mandatory game broadcasts. But since this hasn't been implemented yet, we should probably follow the rule of mutual respect between players. If one of the players, for some reason, doesn't want the opponent to broadcast, then broadcasting would be disrespectful. Broadcasting is, in a sense, similar to maphacking. And broadcasting is essentially a public demonstration of a one-sided save file analysis. Then everything comes down to the issue of trust between players. And if this trust is lacking, then there's no need to broadcast, no matter which side you look at it from. And it would also be good to clarify the issues of copyright.
If we adopt the first option as a basis, then:
Rules for viewers:
Or should this, on the contrary, be allowed? It's quite amusing when a streamer is driven to the point of frustration and they shut down the broadcast.
Petya, what needs to be done is to provide a clearer formulation regarding the use of bugs. Everything else is quite well described (except perhaps adding "loading" in parentheses to the word "analyzing").
All other clarifications are completely unnecessary, especially those that are of a recommendatory nature – why are they in the rules? Let's think about broadcasts, but I don't see any reason to prohibit them in principle. This is something that undoubtedly makes the game more interesting and moves it forward, and there is no way to control it; it's a voluntary thing, and let it remain that way.
You'd better delete this post to avoid causing confusion on the forum.
1) Allow Trans to play as he wishes – no permission is required.
2) Leave the discussion of viewers to your discretion – this is a game, not Forex; don’t think you’re smarter than you are, or don’t pretend to be.
3) The stream is the only advertisement for this mammoth game – and it’s an advertisement that viewers find interesting – don’t stir up trouble, calm down, and continue honing your skills.
5. Viewers are prohibited from giving advice to the streamer during the game, drawing their attention to any moments that the player has not noticed, or directing their actions.
If we allow this, we are making the streamer a hostage to the viewers. A viewer gives advice, and the streamer suffers as a result. This is not right.
Firstly, broadcasts are a huge step towards popularizing the game, and any step towards restricting them will inevitably go against the game's development.
Secondly, the broadcast shows not the opponent's game, but your own. The opponent's game is only visible during contact with him or on the explored area. It is not visible how he fights in dungeons, outposts, or other locations, what formations he uses, what magic he uses, what skills and artifacts he has. Therefore, saying that the broadcaster infringes on the opponent's interests is incorrect. The "damage" to the opponent is minimal. Otherwise, why would they ask for two-way broadcasts?;)
Thirdly, if we are talking about a stream, the broadcaster himself is in a not very comfortable position:
a) streaming takes up a significant amount of computer resources, i.e., you need to have a powerful machine.
b) it is impossible to track whether your opponent is watching your stream or not. Therefore, you have to trust the opponent's integrity a priori. This is much more important than the alleged disclosure of elements of his game during the broadcast.
c) a quality broadcast requires increased attention from the broadcaster. This applies at least to some comments on the game, etc. (perhaps the most accurate comment can be given by Tvaryna).
Periodically, when discussing maphack issues, we have a suggestion to introduce mandatory broadcasting of games.
It is also very problematic to introduce mandatory broadcasting. Firstly, the level of development has not yet been reached, so that the game can be objectively called a cyber sports discipline. Secondly, it is unlikely that technical capabilities will allow everyone to broadcast, at least no one should be responsible for the quality of their hardware.
If one of the players, for some reason, does not want the opponent to broadcast, then broadcasting all the same is disrespecting him.
I still don't understand what objective reason the opponent might have to ask not to broadcast the game.
Secondly, broadcasting is a sign of trust and respect for the opponent, because he can watch this broadcast.
And broadcasting is essentially a public demonstration of a one-sided disclosure of saves.
Why disclosure? The game is played in online mode, there is no "practice" or "concentration" here. On the contrary, it becomes a little more difficult to break the rules: you need skill and maybe a second computer.
A player participating in the game is prohibited from watching the opponent's broadcast during the game, and in the event of postponing the game, it is forbidden to watch the stream recorded by the opponent until the end of the game.
It is impossible to track. Unnecessary complication. And again, the streamer is in an uncomfortable position, not his opponent.
I think that rules for viewers are not needed at all. We are not in a kindergarten, after all, to teach someone the rules of conduct. + it seems that the streamer has the ability to moderate the chat on certain channels.
5. Viewers are prohibited from giving advice to the streaming player during the game, drawing their attention to any moments that the player has not noticed, or directing their actions.
Yeah, prohibit SC2-TV commentators from giving advice in streams. :D Or what other options are there? Prohibit the streamer from reading the chat? Or they can read it, but they can't use the tips:D
I understand that if you give your opponent the green light for a stream, you automatically allow them to use the chat for tips.
Recently, during a stream of one player, I noticed that he regularly got distracted by communicating in Ace or some other chat with another gamer. And after communicating, he made very successful decisions. In essence, two people were playing - one performed the physical work - moved the creatures, the second was the brain center. In general, in a situation where player A is streaming specifically for player B, no prohibitions will help. Also, as with opening saves, everything depends on the player's honesty. And where is the line between tips and interference in the game?
I see only one solution: either I give my opponent permission to stream with all the consequences, or I don't. Other nuances will only complicate the rule, and it is practically impossible to come up with a mechanism that would allow controlling all of this.
And also: for example, Tvaryna actively uses the chat. He gets a certain benefit from the advisors, but how much nerves and time are taken up by newbies, idiots, inadequate people, spammers, and trolls. So, he pays a certain price for the help from the chat. And to reduce the opportunity to communicate with the chat, you need to ask Baratortch to add a chess clock to the module. :)
A player participating in a match is prohibited from watching their opponent's stream during the game, and in the event of a match being postponed, they are prohibited from watching the opponent's recorded stream until the match is over.
By the way, despite the difficulty of tracking, it's still worth implementing, just to close the issue like: " "There was an announcement for everyone - here, watch it, and I started watching... There was nothing said that I wasn't allowed to..."
This isn't a solution; it will only slightly reduce the problem. You can still receive important information from the chat during your opponent's turn. And the timer doesn't even apply to the final round. In fact, in the final round, you can receive crucial advice from a viewer who is watching the stream from both perspectives. In the final with Twaryna, about 2/3 of the hour was spent on his consultation with the chat and reading the chat messages. A solution would be to add another timer specifically for the final rounds.
Since there's a new, good HD+ mod version, I think it should be implemented as a mandatory version for all tournaments... as for the transformations, I don't think it's worth bothering with.
