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Posts from How to effectively use quick battles (autobattles)?

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Offline Lider1
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#108
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Dirty_Player
:smile11: :smile11: :smile11:
What’s so surprising about that? Losing 10 units in the first week is nothing. But by the 5th or 10th month, a legion of dragons can destroy everything without any losses.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline dnaop-wr
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#109
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Belendor
I constantly play on quick battles.
He tears and shreds. He skillfully uses spells, so losses are minimal.
I guess the Artificial Idiot is smarter than the player :smile33:
Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html
Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html
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Offline Terraniux
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#110
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dnaop-wr
I guess the Artificial Intelligence is smarter than the player:smile33:
Sometimes really strange things happen: I've lost battles where I had almost no losses, and sometimes the losses were much smaller.
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Offline Белендор
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#111
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dnaop-wr
I guess the Artificial Intelligence is smarter than the player :smile33:
The auto-battle sometimes glitches, although not always – but I’ve never used it, only out of curiosity.
And quick battle is different from auto-battle; the system is different.
By the way, AI stands for Artificial Intelligence.
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Offline dnaop-wr
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#112
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Belendor
the autobattle sometimes glitches, although not always - but I've never used it, only out of curiosity
and quick battle - it's not like autobattle, the system is different
and by the way, AI stands for Artificial Intelligence
I only used autobattle if I accidentally pressed the wrong button when I was half-asleep (although sometimes there were satisfactory results). That is, I don't use it, so I probably didn't quite understand the difference between autobattle and quick battle. Regarding AI behavior - this topic and individual posts have mentioned that the AI cheats, i.e., sometimes performs prohibited actions on the map and in battle - I myself have encountered this misunderstanding. Apparently, the same problem exists with quick battle.
By the way, IDIOT stands for Ideological Friend and Excellent Comrade :D so AI can be interpreted in different ways - depending on its behavior.
Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html
Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html
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Offline Marmot
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#113
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Yes, the specifics of the quick battle were discussed in more detail in the HD mod thread; in the latest versions, the strange issues and shortcomings that were observed have already been fixed, and the result of the quick battle is much more adequate. And I'll repeat: for beginners, quick battles are often helpful, making the game easier and saving time, but it's important that, after completing the initial training phase, using quick battles doesn't become a bad habit – in all "serious" cases, you need to fight yourself, without relying on the AI! Only in this way can you learn to fight truly effectively!
Воскресайте, камінні душі, Розчиняйте серця і чоло, Щоб не сказали Про вас грядущі: їх на землі не було…
(Василь Симоненко. Люди – прекрасні)
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Offline bolotnik
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#114
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Quick battles are a mixed bag...
The thing is, on large maps during long games, when your army is already decent and the player character is rushing to attack the enemy's city and its hero, you can easily skip minor neutral units on the way using a quick battle to save time, as they would be defeated without losses anyway. But all other battles are best fought manually, and it's also more interesting (this is practically the whole point of the game).
I used to do this sometimes (and still do occasionally) – before a good battle, I save the game, then I do a quick battle first – I look at the results, what's left, who won, and then I load the save and fight the battle fully myself, or vice versa. The results are sometimes really strange:
The same battle, the same conditions, but the results are very different – sometimes a quick battle is won almost without losses, while in a normal battle almost all troops are lost; sometimes the quick battle loses where it's impossible to lose. But overall, I've noticed that in a quick battle, with a normal setup, the losses are much higher than in a normal battle. And in general, it's a bit silly to use AI against AI, and that's why the AI "goes wild," and all sorts of bugs and glitches appear...
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Offline Lider1
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#115
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bolotnik, why aren't you using the ND mod? In ND+ mode, you can replay a battle if you don't like the result. Also, many bugs have been fixed, especially those that caused unjustified victories in quick battles.
bolotnik
In general, it's a bit silly to use AI against AI, and that's why the AI "overperforms," and all sorts of bugs and glitches appear...

It's not silly, for example, to use two Angels to kill a horde of skeletons/gnolls. It just depends on the situation in which it's applied. And it saves a lot of time.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline bolotnik
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#117
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Lider1
bolotnik, why don't you use the HD mod? In ND+ mode, you can replay a battle if you don't like the result. And many bugs have been fixed, such as those that caused unjustified victories in quick battles.

It's not stupid, for example, to kill a horde of skeletons/gnolls with two angels. It just depends on the situation in which it is applied. And it saves a lot of time.

regarding the HD mod, I've heard a lot about it, even downloaded one at some point, but it didn't work for me. And right now, I have some kind of pirated Heroes of Might and Magic 3 complete edition, it's not even installed on my computer, just an unpacked folder, no installation... the translation of some things is not quite correct... I used to have a normal licensed version of RoE and AB...

I agree that quick combat saves time, in your case, I use it myself in similar situations, when the outcome is absolutely clear, everything is simple and obvious, just to save a little time...

Added after 32 minutes
zoog
2 bolotnik In my opinion, the results of quick combat are quite adequate, please provide your examples.

I can't provide save files or screenshots right now, as I don't have them, but I'll give some examples:

there's a Water and Earth expert hero and the Forgetfulness spell, there's a Vulnerability medal, the troops aren't very good, but there's a fast flyer, so the first turn is mine, I defeat the neutrals - liches, since the first turn is mine, first comes Forgetfulness, then Mass Slow, and then winning without losses is just a matter of time, but with quick combat, the result is completely different...

for example, when 100 Fey defeat 900 Earth Elementals, even with the hero having the necessary spells and skills, if you use quick combat, the result will be defeat....

quick combat is adequate, at least for me without the HD mod, only when everything is obvious and there aren't many options...
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Offline zoog
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#118
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the hero has Expert Water and Earth magic and the spell Forgetfulness, has the Medal of Vulnerability, the army is not great but there is a fast flier, so I have the first turn, I break the neutrals — Liches, since I have the first turn, first comes Forgetfulness, then Mass Slow, and then winning without losses is just a matter of time, but with quick combat the result is completely different...

for example, when 100 Pixies wipe out 900 Magma Elementals with Alchemy and the hero having the necessary spells and skills, if you set quick combat, the result will be a defeat....
Synthetic, obvious and clear. In reality, this will not happen with 99.99% probability. Well, and the fact that the AI doesn't use Oil, dispel retal, and focus-firing all on one - .. and still often takes comparable losses)
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Offline bolotnik
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#119
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zoog
It's artificial, obvious, and I know it. In reality, something like this would happen with a probability of 99.99%. And even if the AI doesn't use oil, remove stacks, and focus all its forces on one target... it still often suffers comparable losses.
I took examples from author-made maps like "Battle of the Titans," "Fatum," "Beautiful World," and "Summon the Ship." Such scenarios are very possible there, but of course, they won't happen when playing online or on standard maps.

But I agree, in most cases, the losses are large, but still reasonable.
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Offline Lider1
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#120
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bolotnik
But when playing online or on standard maps, this won't happen.
Actually, that's not true. It doesn't depend on which map you're playing on; it can happen anywhere. Or it might not happen at all. It's just luck, good or bad.
And I'll repeat, with the HD+ mod, 99.9% of such cases are resolved.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline bolotnik
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#121
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Lider1
Actually, that's not true. It doesn't depend on which map you're playing; it can happen anywhere. Or it might not happen at all. It's just luck, good or bad.
And I'll repeat, with the HD+ mod, 99.9% of these cases are resolved.

That's understandable, but someone mentioned "artificial" difficulty, so I gave examples of custom maps where you can get almost any artifact or troops, and other situations can arise on the map. The point was that on standard maps, when you attack with small forces, mana and spells are limited, so the battles will be simpler, making quick battles more reasonable. Not to mention the No Death mod.
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Offline zoog
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#122
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This doesn't depend on which map you're playing; it can happen anywhere.
I meant the initial data, not the result of the battle.
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Offline dushas
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#123
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Hey guys, check this out, is it really possible to replicate the quick battle result here?
It's the campaign from Shades of Darkness, for Gem.
The enemy has:
Charne with stats 13, 16, 10, 9
18 Bone Dragons + 210 Ghosts + 114 Liches + 44 Upgraded Dark Knights + 124 Vampire Lords + 14 Unupgraded Dark Knights
+ She has the Vulnerability Aura and a Ring of Swiftness, Expert Tactics, and casts Raise Dead.
My army:
Gem, 17, 16, 12, 16 (Earth, Water, Archery - Expert, Air - Advanced)
15 Gold Dragons + 197 Grand Elves + 210 Grand Gnomes + 34 Grand Unicorns + 69 Dendroids + 40 Grand Pegasi + 280 Grand Centaurs.

Basically, no matter how I try, I can't win manually, although the quick combat manages to win, while maintaining 70 mana, 3 dragons, 180 elves, 200 centaurs, and some other units. I don't understand how. Moreover, if I change the troop arrangement, the result varies, from large losses to defeat.
I thought I'd watch the auto-combat to see how it wins, but in auto-combat, it gets even worse than I do... =)
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