Posts from First Snow

Dirty_Player, please enable at least one M200 template so that the interests of emote lovers are also taken into account – scrim or 2v2.

Dirty_Player, please enable at least one M200 template so that the interests of emote lovers are also taken into account – scrim or 2cm2c.

It has already been explained that your M-templates are the closest approximation to randomness (there's no point in arguing about this, as it's clearly visible from the tournament grid), and by doing so, you will simply take away an unnecessary advantage from players who are counting on winning... and the fact that it's being written here about its popularity is a direct result of the "kalababa" [likely a reference to a specific tournament format or organizer], due to its promotion and, to a large extent, because of the financial aspect of previous tournaments. It's fast, easy, requires little thought, and offers a high probability of winning, even with weak gameplay... that's why you like it. Sorry if I offended anyone, but that's just my opinion.

How close M-decks are to randomness is a matter of debate, and it's pointless to argue about it. In my opinion, the main thing here is not the opinion about a specific deck, but the current demand for that deck. Currently, the demand for M-decks is high enough to include them in a tournament. Half of the community considers Jebus to be a "gay" deck, where the draw is decisive. But the question of including it in tournaments doesn't even arise, simply because it's popular.

There is no greater randomness than in Jebus; it's the ultimate grind.
Whoever reaches the center first is the master, and the time and quality of reaching the center depend 90% on the draw.

And on M-maps, there isn't as much variance in the draw as on - xxxxxxx, and on M-maps, skill plays a greater role than on - ххххххх, you get the idea :).
Sorry if I offended your Jebus-loving feelings :)

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On any template, of course, everything depends on the draw; in this regard, M-maps are no different from Jebus, but Jebus consistently makes it into any pool of tournament templates, while M-maps rarely do.

And the M200 tournament showed that people like them (for a number of different reasons) - so why not include at least one M-map in the 8th template?

Those who really don't like M-maps can always remove it, just like Jebus.

We can argue for a long time about how close M-sets are to randomness, but it doesn't make sense. In my opinion, the main thing here is not the organizer's opinion about the template, but the current demand for this template. Currently, the demand for M-sets is high enough to include them in the tournament. Half of the community considers Jebus to be a "gay" template, where the draw decides everything. But the question of including it in tournaments doesn't even arise, simply because it is popular.

What are you talking about? The organizer's opinion is what matters: if potential participants don't like the list of templates, they will choose another tournament with a different organizer. For example, organized by the same Calabah. Or the eternally dissatisfied Qwerty and leosnow will organize their own.
What's the point of including M200 in this tournament if Tower is one of the strongest castles in it? And I understand this, even though I have never played with such rules.

Look at the first post of the topic:

...
2. Increasing interest in the "Tower" castle
3. Improving the level of play and gaining experience
...

And what is there to increase interest in M200? Everything is well known about Tower in it, in principle, and that is why you are suggesting it, because you know that Tower feels great in it.

But most players shy away from Tower as much as possible in the templates proposed by Kostya (in this regard, even Panic stands out from the list, because in it, Tower is fine and there are players who enjoy playing it in Hv). Let them try it out and see for themselves that it's not that bad.

There is no greater roulette in nature than the same old Jebus Cross )
Whoever takes the center becomes a master of sport, and the time and quality of reaching the center depends 90% on the deal.

And M-maps don't have such a variance in the deal as - xxxxxxx, and on M-maps skill matters more than on - ххххххх well you get it :).
Sorry if I hurt your Jebus Cross feelings :)

Imagine talking so much trash about the most normal template among those that exist (not perfect, who's arguing, but second only to Mirror, which I haven't had a chance to play yet)! And you don't care that in fact templates with "personal" treasure zones, like SM and these beloved M-maps of yours - are already nonsense. The center (well, the conventionally richest zone) must be General if the template claims to be balanced - and this is not up for discussion. Take what's yours there (i.e., initially general!:cool: ), while simultaneously fearing your opponent and preventing them from taking it - that right there is skill, fun, and whatever else you want! That's one thing. Furthermore, regarding the deal in starting zones, let's use basic probability theory: conventionally take two decks of cards - on an M-map let's say 10 cards, among which are a couple of kings and various low cards; on Jebus - 36 cards from 6s to aces - now calculate for yourselves the probability in the first case that one person ends up with total trash while the other gets both kings, and in the second case it's the same: one without high cards, the other with everything - if dealt equally;). And generally, start playing serious games on SoD, friends - and then stop complaining about a disbalanced Jebus etc.; of course, when you're dealt blocks on captain hats and cartographers, while in Dragon Utopia they give out major bags/relics and winged boots - of course, it's Jebus's fault, but SoD is still true and same-sex for the broken:D !..

By the way, are fly/Dimension Door allowed in panic and balance?

No one is complaining about your favorite JebusCross :) - the fact that it's a good template is undeniable, and no one argues with that.

But, as in life, it's a matter of taste, and everyone has different tastes. Some people like Jebus, while others prefer Panic and M-K.

I can't agree that M-K is more imbalanced than Jebus :)

Mirror map is the only balanced template; everything else is approximately equally imbalanced (but that's part of the charm of Heroes) due to the generator.

Let there be both Jebus and M-K; if you don't like it, you can always remove it, just like I always remove Jebus :)

ariputra, there's already plenty to write about there, and you're adding Might & Magic to the mix:D.

Balance in Heroes is achieved not through identical conditions for all players, but through a wealth of options for each, and the winner is the one who finds the optimal path within this abundance – that is what skill is. In my opinion, M-200 clearly lacks these very options, and the results confirm this.

But all of this is irrelevant because the organizer makes the decision, and whatever he decides will be the case, regardless of the popularity and likeability/dislike of certain templates.

play with fixes, balance enthusiasts.

Question for the organizers. Please clarify the procedure for drafting templates. After all, when drafting from 8 templates, some difficulties may arise with the final selection.

Please clarify the procedure for drafting maps. After all, when drafting from 8 maps, some difficulties may arise with the final selection.

There are no difficulties. Draft the maps one by one until only ONE remains, and that will be the map used for the game.

Regarding Jebus. In reality, there is a place to showcase skill on Jebus. If someone is given a good starting position, it doesn't necessarily mean they will use it effectively. Skill is very important in choosing a strategy and maximizing the quality of clearing the map. As for M200, you often have to make the only possible moves, and factors such as "the proximity of a treasure chest to the castle" can significantly affect the outcome. If the M200 map were checked by a judge for playability, then it might be worth discussing, but as it is, unfortunately, it's not.

Regarding M200 in this tournament, M200 will only be used if someone contributes $100 to the prize pool. :D

I suggest switching to a full double-elimination format after 2-3 rounds.

Jeb, in a certain sense, reflects the essence of the game in Heroes as many see it – a game against the map. Perhaps that's why it's so popular. That is, Jeb is for players who enjoy the struggle against the map layout. For example, if you manage to take the central location on a difficult map on day 121, that's impressive. On XL maps, however, the priority is more on playing against an opponent. This means there are many more opportunities to win purely through skill, even with a bad map layout. If, on Jeb, starting from a certain skill level, the map layout mainly determines the outcome (although, of course, skill greatly influences the outcome up to that level), then on XL maps, even at a good level of play, a small difference in skill noticeably affects both the process of the game and its result. That is, on XL, the real fun begins around week 3, when the map no longer presents a significant challenge, and the game becomes a direct competition between players. The longer and more intense this competition is, the more skill and experience become apparent. It is visible in the chasing, the capturing of castles and towns, the battles with heroes, in the control vs. rush and rush vs. control strategies, and so on. But – many players don't like XL precisely because of this. I often see reports like: they fought on week 3, exchanged blows, and agreed to a draw. That is, right when the game is just starting, some players try to end it. Why even play XL then? And, by the way, of all the XL templates, 8mm6a is the most Jeb-like; it often has a distinct, small central area where players are bound to encounter each other. At the same time, for engaging gameplay, a structure is desirable that allows either player to move into open areas, bypassing zones controlled by the opponent. That is, so that a player with a slightly better starting position cannot trap the opponent in their 2-3 zones. Among well-played templates, 6lm10a best meets this requirement. On 8xm12a, there is a center, but it is large and branched enough, so it is quite possible to avoid a more powerful opponent. Plus, the road network is more difficult to read, and therefore, it is more difficult for the active side to detect the opponent. Nostalgia offers many opportunities to complicate the game, but it has a problem with the balance of roads, and as a result, random factors have a strong influence on the outcome. I recently posted an updated version (in the PL topic) where the roads are well-balanced, but it hasn't been played in tournaments yet. Similarly, with Spider – the small number of tournament games doesn't allow for an objective assessment of the depth of the gameplay. Plus, there are also issues with the roads; it will need to be tweaked.