Posts from Commercial show matches.

scorp...and then donations will start, and there will simply be nowhere to put all the money...)

scorp...and then donations will start, and there will simply be nowhere to put the money...)

I didn't understand the hidden meaning of the message (and I haven't learned to read minds yet :cool: )

Now Merlin will sign contracts with everyone, and only Sevensan will be free. What will you do then?

:p Free Sevensan sounds harsh =)

almost like free Wi-Fi.

I would be willing to pay, but not for a camrip with freezes at 15 frames out of 25.

I didn't understand the hidden meaning of the message (and I haven't learned to read minds yet :cool: )

This is a classic quote from a famous movie.

Yesterday, we played a game on the L Jebus map, following the rules of the 2 vs 2 tournament. BAJIEHOK and Indra vs BertVolga and Sup. I showed my turn on TeamViewer, and then opened Indra's turn for him. Albert also streamed the game. The game lasted about 4 hours, with the center being reached around turn 115-116. So, we had 2 streams open, watching the turns of 4 people... the monsters are weak, there's constant action, fast battles with limited time control, and divisions of respawn points to allies... I think it turned out well. We could repeat this match today as an experiment. Maybe we can even find some people who would like to commentate.

I could offer some commentary. I don’t have the same talent as Merlin, of course, but I can give it a try. The only problem is that I’m in the Moscow time zone +7, so if the game starts after 3 PM Moscow time, I won’t be able to participate, as I have to get up early tomorrow. On other days, I’m happy to provide commentary even at a later time.

Ready to play 2v2 today, if it's not too late to start.

:p Free Sevensan sounds harsh =)

Let's make it an independent game then :)

I've wanted to speak out on this topic for a long time. I just couldn't find the time. Today, I was in such a rush to a game with Britva that I forgot my mouse, so I'll write a bit now.

My personal position is that all broadcasts should be made paid; it would be like the intellectual property of the player who is broadcasting. But as long as there are a number of high-level players ready to broadcast their games for free, this issue cannot be resolved. Possible exceptions: only rare games of "super-tops" or finals of strong tournaments.
Once, someone bought a broadcast from me—one person bought it for 300 rubles, but I sold it with the right to distribute it to whoever he wanted—in the end, he gave it to several interested people for free. So the idea generally has merit, but for the reasons mentioned above, it is unlikely to be implementable for now.

As many know, everything was thought of before us. Back in May 2010, after the CIS champ, Vic and I discussed this topic. Streams didn't exist then—at most Mikogo—but I think these thoughts were forming not only in our minds.

Piterius (20:20:56 25/05/2010)
Lately, I've been racking my brain over how to slightly commercialize Heroes—holding popular tournaments with broadcasts and prizes, both singles and teams.
Does anything like that come to your mind?

Wic (20:21:41 25/05/2010)
I think it makes sense to start with show-matches

Piterius (20:22:42 25/05/2010)
Good idea

Piterius (20:24:56 25/05/2010)
The whole question is the intended audience, or rather its size. As long as the audience is counted in dozens, you won't find sponsors; thousands of viewers are needed

Wic (20:25:49 25/05/2010)
How do you propose broadcasting to thousands?

Piterius (20:27:44 25/05/2010)
I have no idea how technically, but if there were a thousand... maybe a way can be found

Wic (20:28:49 25/05/2010)
As a trial, we could hold a show-match between someone like Alex and Stinger
so they play with their own money
and a betting pool, the profit from which is added to the prize fund

Wic (20:29:12 25/05/2010)
Those who placed a bet in the pool are allowed to watch the Mikogo broadcast

Piterius (20:29:16 25/05/2010)
A betting pool should be there, of course, but that alone won't be enough, damn it

Wic (20:29:28 25/05/2010)
Well, for now the goal isn't to extract profit from this

Wic (20:29:46 25/05/2010)
We need to get the public used to such a spectacle and to the idea that they have to pay small amounts of money for it

Piterius (20:30:07 25/05/2010)
I'm not talking about profit, I'm talking about gradual popularization, and that also requires funds no matter how you look at it

Wic (20:30:43 25/05/2010)
It seems like nothing is required other than personal time

Piterius (20:31:33 25/05/2010)
Promoting tournaments will require it

Piterius (20:32:06 25/05/2010)
We could create something like a support and development fund for the Heroes movement

Wic (20:32:33 25/05/2010)
Where would the fund be filled from and what would it be spent on?

Wic (20:33:27 25/05/2010)
The show-match option is quite simple to implement plus doesn't require injecting cash; everything rotates internally

Piterius (20:33:49 25/05/2010)
Filling it in various ways—from the betting pool, from views in the long run, from sponsors and patrons

Piterius (20:34:07 25/05/2010)
The show-match option is just super for a start

Wic (20:34:09 25/05/2010)
I don't think we should rely on sponsors in principle

Wic (20:34:19 25/05/2010)
If they appear—good
if not—there's no point asking

Piterius (20:34:21 25/05/2010)
Well, then there won't be much development

Wic (20:34:41 25/05/2010)
A good idea has a tendency to develop itself
and for a bad one, even sponsors won't help

Wic (20:34:58 25/05/2010)
I'm just in the loop regarding how financial matters stand in esports

Wic (20:35:04 25/05/2010)
It's roughly as I described

Wic (20:35:35 25/05/2010)
We also need to cut the duration of games

Wic (20:36:01 25/05/2010)
Push asm for simultaneous turns, finish symmetric random

Wic (20:36:19 25/05/2010)
So there are no restarts and the action itself happens faster in terms of time

Wic (20:36:33 25/05/2010)
And set a stricter timer

Wic (20:36:40 25/05/2010)
1800+300 or something like that

Piterius (20:36:53 25/05/2010)
Cutting is absolutely necessary

Piterius (20:40:59 25/05/2010)
If you try something by trial and error, then yes, nothing but your own efforts are needed; but if a specific result is required, you need to draw up a plan for three years ahead with all the details, nuances, and possible branches, then follow that plan—that's a completely different option
I'm thinking about the latter: whether there's any point in it

Wic (20:41:15 25/05/2010)
There is no point

Wic (20:41:26 25/05/2010)
We need to feel out the ground

Wic (20:41:36 25/05/2010)
Successful esports projects developed spontaneously

Wic (20:41:41 25/05/2010)
StarCraft in Korea, for example

Wic (20:42:13 25/05/2010)
It started exactly with show-matches between leaders of individual sandboxes

Wic (20:42:31 25/05/2010)
At first, only players from those sandboxes watched, then others began to come

Piterius (20:43:43 25/05/2010)
Well, at the level of show-matches, one view isn't enough; you also need show-commentary, a warm-up, and then analysis

So, to summarize my thoughts from back then.
No matter how you look at it, the very word "commercial" show-matches means business; where money begins, there must be market relations. You won't get far on raw enthusiasm—you can try things out, but the probability of failure in achieving a set goal is 99%.

Here we need to understand what goals we are setting and with what resources we will achieve these goals. I think many will agree with me that the goal should be "smart." What does smart mean? It means the goal must be:
- specific
- achievable
- realistic
- measurable
- time-bound
If our goal is in a "blurred position" by even one of these parameters (for example—we need to try, and we'll see how it goes), then this goal is not smart and it's better not to set it at all; it's just wasted time.
What goals would I set? Essentially there is only one.
1. Popularization of Heroes.
Everything else is a means to achieve it. Commercial show-matches are a perfectly suitable means. Our goal is quite specific, reasonably realistic, and fully measurable. All that's left is to understand how and when.
Example of a goal—
"In 2015, the active Heroes audience in the CIS region consists of 1,000,000 people, with 10,000 active viewers (watching streams on weekends)"

This is just an example. The actual numbers will be different. What next? Next, everything is simple and simultaneously complex. The simplicity is that you only need to calculate everything—what to calculate is clear (at least to me), but the complexity is that it must actually be DONE.

Moving on to "How." A strategy and a plan are needed.
Example of a strategy. There is the Champions League and Europa League, known and respected by almost all of us. An excellent model for a self-sustaining tournament. I'm talking about football leagues :). I don't know how things stand in basketball or hockey leagues; it's only clear that some are more successful than others. What is the key factor for success? Correct: the audience. The larger it is, the greater the success one can expect, and through popularization, you expand that audience even further. I once came across a statistic that every sixth inhabitant of the planet is a football fan. Obviously, a billion fans don't watch Champions League matches simultaneously, but there is some percentage ratio of active fans who go to matches or watch them on TV. In those moments, they part with their hard-earned money. But not directly. Tickets for a match or payment for a broadcast by a fan are only a small fraction. The organizers of the CL don't make money from tickets; they make money from advertising. Advertisers, in turn, are ready to pay where there is an audience, and the larger it is, the more expensive the advertising, the more the organizers earn, and the more opportunities they have for popularization.

What would I do now to understand if our goal is smart or not.
1. Calculate how many active stream and Mikogo viewers there are in total, including how many watch streams regularly.
Understand who these viewers are—age, gender, average income level, lifestyle; obviously, this isn't possible yet, that comes later :).
2. Calculate how many viewers there could be in perspective after one, two, three years. In other words, forecast based on available data. The form of the forecast can be anything; there is no universal one—if there were, a Nobel Prize would have been given for it already. Any forecasting system has a 10-20% margin of error.
3. Based on available data, determine what kind of sponsors and in what volume could be attracted if we broadcast top games every weekend, say, with 1,000 viewers.
4. Create an income budget—advertisers, sponsors, investors, but absolutely not the viewers; they must not be touched. They will pay later when they become active users of advertising during broadcasts :), subsequently fulfilling the sales plans of the advertisers.
5. Create an expense budget—website, organization of broadcasts, fees for commentators and participants, other expenses.

And do this for at least three years. If the debits and credits align, then go ahead (finding investors is not a problem; there's currently an acute shortage of ideas in the world, but plenty of money); if not, we set another goal or look for other means to achieve it—the popularization of Heroes.

We need to do something, otherwise as they say, "we talked and forgot." I am not claiming anything, nor am I disputing other described ideas; I'm simply placing my opinion alongside them and sharing some experience.
My opinion is that we either have to move forward or forget about it completely.

The most important question was not touched upon. Would you be willing to pay for serious games by the fathers? Maybe people will strangle themselves paying for what they see for free every day. For an ordinary user, it doesn't matter if it's Sevensan or Alex the Great playing.

The question of what means to pay for this pleasure is also very relevant. If an interesting game is scheduled for tomorrow, I'm not going to run around looking for where to top up my WebMoney. Or if the game is in a week, is there any point in paying if I don't even know if I'll be able to watch the game.

How and through what means... we should rather borrow the experience from http://worldoftanks.ru/ or http://www.voyna-plemyon.ru/?ref=foe_zz
they have payment methods, the ability to pay from different countries, and in-game currency.
I think it would be "easier" to create a special login where one would be offered to "buy a ticket to the match," upon receiving which you can enter as many times as you want (by remembering the nickname or issuing a ticket).
Regarding the amount of payment, it's much simpler here; everything comes with experience, start small and gradually increase.
People will want to pay for "short," "fun" matches: for example, for a game on tournament templates m-200 or sm-ke, as for XL I don't know anymore.
as an example
Development tactics when playing for Castle (video from Sir Mizrael, from an online game Mizrael(red_Castle) vs WOWA(blue_Stronghold), duration 18 game days)
Development tactics when playing for Castle (video from Sir FireToSky, from an online game FireToSky(red,Castle) vs OUTLAW(blue,Rampart)8mm6, Tournament 2010, duration 21 game days)
Development tactics when playing for Tower (video from Sir Dirty_Player, duration 5 game days of the first week)
Development tactics when playing for Conflux (video from Sir Pit for LM from a tournament online game Pit for LM(Conflux) def КостяN(Fortress) 127 duration 2 game weeks) - real action SUPER
Development tactics when playing for Castle (video from Sir Pit for LM, from an online game of the world championship, Pit for LM(red, Castle) vs Dunpeal (blue, Fortress), Panic, 23 game days) sound issues
Development tactics when playing for Rampart (video from Sir FireToSky from a tournament online game OUTLAW(red,Necro) vs FireToSky(blue,Rampart) Tournament 2010, 2cm4d(3), 132.duration 3 game weeks) also action
There are many more interesting games there, but imho I chose from those I managed to watch the ones that, besides the game example, have good sound and commentary
Tournament final on sc2tv.ru (RomarioGrom(red_random-Dungeon) vs FireToSky(blue_random-Fortress)game-1) super stream with good commentators and commentary. BUT ... StickyFingaz, I recently watched your stream recording, your Jebus Cross conflux and breaking through the black on 121, with comments like that I don't want to watch your streams now, even though you play beautifully and instructively (switching to some horror movies with skull crushing, arrogant remarks and profanity - that's a big minus).
...
I like streams from twaryna, a combination of good gameplay, good commentary, answering questions during the opponent's turn, respectful attitude towards the opponent and chat, as well as stopping spam and insults in chat.
I would name more streamers, but I don't have enough real time to watch.
To stimulate players, it could be possible, on a paid basis, to download a recording or even watch a recording, within reasonable limits, and let the streamers set their own price. But I don't want to watch or download a recording if it's not from the beginning or not to the end (i.e., if in the first week there is no 112 or 114 - that's already defective, no matter how good the commentary and gameplay are)

Yesterday, in the chat for the game with ATG, they quickly figured out the contributions for 2 or 3 rounds, around 100-200 rubles each. So, financially, it's more than feasible – the main thing is to find the right person to organize it.

Yesterday, in the chat for the game with ATG, they quickly figured out how to collect 2 or 3 contributions, 100-200 rubles each. So, financially, it's more than possible – the main thing is to find the right person.

I've wanted to do it several times, but I can't figure out how to convert my bunnies into Russian ones and how to use WebMoney in general. Somehow, I managed to put a small amount into my account for testing, but I couldn't use it. That's the problem.

Yesterday, in the chat during a game with ATG, they quickly figured out how to collect 2 or 3 contributions, 100-200 rubles each. So, financially, it's more than feasible – the main thing is to find the right person to organize it.

Yesterday, they managed to collect a total of 16 + 12 rubles "for a game with ATG," to be precise. Another 100 "for a monitor" and 100 "for beer." Well, and there was also a promise to contribute. At the same time, Tvarina has a stable audience of 350-400 people. My point is: the idea is excellent, but in my opinion, you are "living in a dream world." It's not just very difficult to do this, but practically impossible. I discussed and explained this in detail during one of my streams. Although, I repeat, the idea is good, and I myself would participate in this venture if real actions were taken.

Although, I repeat, the idea is good, and I would participate in this venture if real actions were taken.

It's as if you don't know how it's done. They talked andforgot :D