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#405
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Seriously, stop using auto-save in tournaments. You're not newbies anymore, but you still ask for/get it.

P.S. If I were the organizers, I would make those cheaters replay (due to exploiting auto-saves and blatantly violating the rules). That's just my opinion.
In reply to HellLighT
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#407
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HellLighT
You guys are unbelievable, just stop using auto-save in tournaments. You're not newbies anymore, but you still ask for/give it.

P.S. If I were the organizers, I would make those guys replay (because of repeatedly using auto-saves and blatantly violating the rules). That's just my opinion.

I would do it this way: wait until all the games are played and, depending on whether I pass or not, determine the result.

But seriously, it's not right to bargain for a higher rank by blatantly violating the rules, like when your opponent takes one more auto-save than you when you were the first to ask for a load.
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

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#408
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Basically, regarding the auto-picks: I don't know why my opponent did it, but he gave them away without hesitation. As for my picks: the first time, I stepped away from the computer for a bit longer than usual and missed 2.5 minutes out of 10, so I didn't have time to develop anyone, and they were snatched up. The second auto-pick: it was frustrating not to be able to share the Griffins and buy more Archers in the last seconds (I already pressed the maximum button, but I didn't have time to confirm it). I'll leave it to the tournament judges to decide.
http://www.twitch.tv/mikevalentine/
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#410
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group C
4.10.12. RozenKran (blue, flux, Fiur) def Mizrael (red, castle, Catlin, christian), Balance, 133.
We used up all resets. I have 2 external dwellings of fire birds and a Griffin Conservatory at max on respawn. At the end of the first week, I broke through the block on my native castle — it also guarded the adjacent zone. I took 2 Dwarf Cottages (15 and 10) and placed birds in the fort.
On the second week, with heavy losses, I took a max Griffin Conservatory and broke through to another adjacent zone, where I took a Naga Bank for 4. Fiur was not leveling well — I had to expert Pathfinding and Wisdom, with basic Water magic.
On the third week, I reached one of the central zones, from there into another adjacent zone, and luckily picked up a Dwarf Cottage and a max Conservatory there. After that, I broke into the main and ran to destroy the GO.
I thought I would come to the trash in vain, but the opponent turned out to have no meat at all (the Generator favored me heavily), even though he was superior in stats.



Thanks for the game!
In reply to Mizrael
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#411
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Mizrael
Basically, about the auto-pick: I don't know why the opponent needed it; I gave it without hesitation.

The auto-pick "was needed" for the same reason as it was for you the first time; you missed it in the game, as I told you.
Mizrael

Regarding my picks: the first time, I stepped away from the computer for a little longer than usual and missed 2.5 minutes out of 10, so I didn't have time to develop anyone, and they were loaded.

I was distracted throughout the game, either by my wife, my phone, or someone else.
Mizrael

The second auto-pick: it was frustrating not to be able to split the Griffins and buy Archers in the last seconds (I had already pressed the maximum button, but I didn't have time to confirm it :)). Let's leave it to the tournament judges to decide.


You were frustrated that you couldn't split the army in the last seconds, which led to your defeat. My motives are exactly the same :)

I didn't intentionally break the rules; I thought I had won fairly, but it turned out otherwise.

Added after 16 minutes
Satyr
I would have done it this way: waited until all the games were played and, depending on whether I pass or not, determined the result.

But seriously, it's not good to bargain for a pick, rudely violating the rules by the opponent taking one more auto-pick when you were the first to ask for a load.

This isn't about bargaining; the person hinted that I have double standards, and that's what bothered me, i.e., "when it's in my favor, I think that an auto-pick should be given, but when it's not in my favor, I think it shouldn't."

What kind of bargaining is that?

First, I offered a draw because I was willing to offer a draw in that situation: The person "won" by violating the rules, but unintentionally.

Second, I offered a draw to see what standards he would apply to me.

A weak player "wins" against a top player, even if it's by violating the rules, but not intentionally, to increase his motivation in the tournament and interest in the game; why not just give him the win, let alone a draw?
Дурман мирской любви сильнее яда кобры, он глупым может сделать мудреца и увести от цели благородной и дух и волю война храбреца.
"Неизвестная история человечества. Запрещенная археология (с иллюстрациями), Майкл Кремо, Ричард Томпсон,479с,1.46 Мб.
Вакцинация младенцев в роддомах преступление!
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#412
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Ariputra, scrolls of levels 4-5 have very low value, and their guards are completely weak, so allowing scrolls without a GM is not a good idea. Or do you think that 100 Pokémon are equal to a dragon utopia?! And wisdom is not actually needed to use scrolls, if that's what you mean. For field trips, you don't even need books. It would be better to ban scrolls, like on WCL.
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#413
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Vaflya
There are situations that are debatable. For example, in a game with an unfamiliar person, I try to play without auto-combat and don't use it myself, only because I suspect that auto-combat is used to replay the battle and get a better result.

No, there's no debatable situation here (well, from a formal point of view, there definitely isn't). I violated the existing rules, simply out of a genuine misunderstanding. After Mizrael pointed out the rules, I acknowledged the defeat.

But this is about something else.
Why wouldn't a top player give a victory to a weaker player, even if it was obtained through violations, let alone offer a draw – to increase motivation and interest in the tournament and the game in general. In this case, a draw was not offered for that purpose.

Of course, it's easier for me to talk about it, as I'm not in that situation. But at least, I'd like to believe that I would act that way.
Vaflya

But very often there are situations when the AI seems to be mocking you, for example, not so long ago, it took the Diablo stronghold with two (!) Devils, a defensive unit, and a stack of 17 Gnomes. The hero had 0-1 combat skill, and one archer with 40 damage. So, what do you think, were the units Pixies? Anti-morale only triggered once for my Diablo stack, while morale triggered twice for the opposing Diablo stack. Obviously, this situation is extremely unfair for 90% of similar battles, so if you ask for auto-combat in such a case, it would be a sin not to help.
The same goes for "not having enough time." It's frustrating when you need to think things through, but you only have 10 minutes. Yesterday, in a game, we played for 10 minutes, and I had to use auto-combat twice due to time constraints; it was a very important turn.
If anyone is interested, I've attached the save file.

But what does the AI's "mockery" have to do with it, no matter how much of it there is.

The point is that some "mockeries" or "gifts of fate" are balanced – in the form of additional conditions for their use and are reflected in the rules, while other "mockeries" or "gifts" that create no less imbalance and are in no less need of balancing – are not reflected at all and are not balanced by additional artificial conditions for their use.
Дурман мирской любви сильнее яда кобры, он глупым может сделать мудреца и увести от цели благородной и дух и волю война храбреца.
"Неизвестная история человечества. Запрещенная археология (с иллюстрациями), Майкл Кремо, Ричард Томпсон,479с,1.46 Мб.
Вакцинация младенцев в роддомах преступление!
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#414
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ariputra, how can we know that you're not just pretending to be some kind of innocent little angel? That's why certain judging standards were created to avoid this pathetic display of whining about dried-up strings, and in this case, I completely agree with Mizrael. As for the auto-pick situation, I've shared some general thoughts. SoD is inherently quite unbalanced, but that's part of its charm: some people like chess, others like backgammon. Personally, I prefer SoD because it's a game from my childhood, not WT, for example. Of course, some quality changes wouldn't hurt, but only if they don't change the game's principle, strategy, and so on. There's no point in making a chess game with a 20x20 board; no one would play it. You're wrong, and moreover, I don't think this debate is worth it, so you can justify yourself as much as you want, but personally, I wouldn't change the judging principles.
The point is that some "torments" or "gifts of fate" are balanced – in the form of additional conditions for use and are reflected in the rules, while other "torments" or "gifts" that introduce no less imbalance and are in no less need of balancing – are not reflected at all and are not balanced – by additional artificial conditions for use.
Tvardovsky, you should stop using so many "not"s. ;-)
In reply to Juristis
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#415
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Juristis

And wisdom is not actually needed for using scrolls, FYI. For adventure map scrolls you don't even need a spell book. Might as well just ban scrolls then, like on WCL.

That's not what was meant.
Juristis
Ariputra, level 4-5 scrolls have very low value, and their guards are absolutely insignificant, so allowing scrolls without a Mage Guild is out of the question. Or do you think 100 pokemon are equal to a Dragon Utopia?!


Why is this condition even needed — building the corresponding level of the Mage Guild? To eliminate imbalance, to balance the game? So that one player doesn't get a valuable object at an incomparably low cost? That's why an additional condition of use is introduced,

Naturally, the guard of a level 4-5 scroll and the guard of a utopia, not to mention what's inside, are incomparable — there is no contradiction in that, in my opinion. It's about something else:

The value of, for example, a level 1 Griffin Conservatory can later be no less than a Town Portal scroll (not talking about the object's value), meaning it can later have just as strong an impact on the game result as a level 4-5 scroll, while the guard of the Griffin Conservatory can be just as weak as that of a scroll. That is, in both cases, the guard (cost) does not correspond to what you get in return, but in one case the mismatch of cost (guard) and reward (contents) is balanced by additional artificial conditions of use, and in the other it is not.

To balance the cost (guard) and reward (contents) in one case, an additional condition is introduced, but in the other case it isn't — that's the problem, in my view.

After all, this is just my own personal subjective opinion

Added after 48 minutes
Vaflya
ariputra, and how do we know you're not just playing the innocent little flower? It's to avoid that dreary rehashing of dried-up arguments that certain judging standards were invented, and in this case, I completely agree with Mizrael.


You're right, there's no way to know. There's no guarantee.
You talk about judging standards in the "game," but in real life, are you also that strict? With yourself?

And generally, how should it be? Distrust in advance? Presumption of guilt?

Vaflya

As for the auto situation — I laid out general thoughts. SoD is by definition quite imbalanced, but that has its own charm: some like chess, some like backgammon. Personally, in this case, I prefer SoD precisely because it's the game of my childhood, not WT, for instance. It's clear that a number of quality improvements wouldn't hurt, but they would only be beneficial if those changes don't alter the core gameplay principle, strategy, and so on. There's no point in making chess a 20x20 board — nobody would play it.)
That's right, SoD itself is very imbalanced, and that has its own charm, but the question is something else: some elements that introduce imbalance are reflected in the rules, while others that also introduce imbalance — some to a lesser extent, some to a greater one — are not. That doesn't mean the rules are bad. It only means that in some ways they don't align with my views.
Vaflya

You're wrong; moreover, I think the debate isn't worth it,

Then why did you join it? Lol

Vaflya

so you can, of course, make excuses all you want, but personally, I wouldn't change my judging principles.
Tvardovsky, you should drop the "not" phrasing. ;-)


That's right, decisions must be made in accordance with standards and rules.
But you still don't understand anything if you're drawing such conclusions. It's about something else — I'm not asking anything from anyone, just like you, I'm laying out general thoughts. I don't need this draw at all, frankly.

I'll repeat: I proposed a draw to see the person's reaction, to see if they would apply the standards they had previously "tried on" me to themselves, but for some reason didn't want to wear them. And that's their right, and I don't judge them. I'm only theoretically discussing the possible motives for alternative decisions in such a situation.

________________
I have a feeling the forester is coming now
Дурман мирской любви сильнее яда кобры, он глупым может сделать мудреца и увести от цели благородной и дух и волю война храбреца.
"Неизвестная история человечества. Запрещенная археология (с иллюстрациями), Майкл Кремо, Ричард Томпсон,479с,1.46 Мб.
Вакцинация младенцев в роддомах преступление!
Вред прививок или правда о вакцинации
In reply to ariputra
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#416
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A lot of empty words. In reality, there wasn't much insistence on using a second account; rather, after the refusal, I concluded that the person's words don't match their actions (they themselves said, "write if you didn't have time to arrange things or if a hero with a mod and no army ran away"), which I directly pointed out to them. Considering the hero's power, stats, and artifacts, no arrangement would have helped, so all this fuss smells like hypocrisy. And I won't even mention the fact that there wouldn't have been a battle without scrolls.
http://www.twitch.tv/mikevalentine/
#417
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I apologize, but from an outside perspective, it looks absurd: to sign up for a tournament, play a match, and then start a discussion about what rules are incorrect and how they should be changed. The rules were known from the beginning; anyone could have read them in the first post, and they shouldn't change during the tournament. Otherwise, it's just a circus.
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#418
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Tomash
I apologize, but from the outside, it looks ridiculous: to sign up for a tournament, play a match, and then start a conversation about what rules are wrong and how they need to be changed.

The rules were known from the beginning; anyone could read them in the first post, and they shouldn't change during the tournament.

Otherwise, it's just a circus.

+100500. A very funny situation. This guy has played many games on the forum. And then he found out about the existence of the rules for online games, which he was playing by :D. Very amusing. Keep it up :D.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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#419
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10/03/2012 Mizrael vs ariputra
In the game, rule II.5.11 regarding the conditions for using Magic Scrolls was violated; ariputra acknowledged the violation, so the judges will not review the save files.
ariputra receives a technical defeat in this game:

10/03/2012 Mizrael(red, Castle, Caitlin, Adelaida) def ariputra(blue, Dungeon, Shakti, Shakti) 8mm6a 214

That's ariputra. No changes to the rules within the tournament will be made. In general, it’s funny not to know the rules but to suggest many changes to them.
ariputra
Previously, were scrolls allowed to be used in PvE without setting up the Mage Guild? If yes, when were the changes made?
Rules that were in effect from November 18, 2007, to November 30, 2010.
These are our very first rules; I based the current ones on them.
If you are interested in the history, please search the forum yourself; there are many topics and discussions, and I don't want to waste time looking for links.

An apology is everyone's personal business. This apology does not obligate either the giver or the receiver. And, in my opinion, it has nothing to do with the concept of "nobility." It's especially amusing when someone who "generously" gave an apology later "generously" demands a reward for it. And it's also quite amusing to "generously" demand an apology, accusing someone of lacking "nobility."
Vaflya
Personally, I wouldn’t change the judges’ principled stance.
There are enough judges in the tournament; we will manage.

Gentlemen, let's stop wasting words. And I might soon have time to finish writing the changes to the regulations.
In reply to Pit for LM
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#420
I can play today tour game, write me please in icq who can also.
In reply to fockewulf
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#421
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To Group O: Throughout the tournament, I haven't seen anyone online on ICQ (I chatted with Huanito, but he's an exception). Perhaps we have scheduling conflicts. Please let us know: what time can you usually play (or from what date, if you're away).
I'm usually free after 9:00 PM Moscow time on weekdays, and playing on weekends will be difficult for the next couple of weeks. You can also write to me on ISQ 394-777-828 during the day – I won't be able to play, but we can discuss playing times, chat, etc.

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