Skip to content

Posts from Player rating for tournaments across all installments of Heroes.

5.0 (1 rating)
Open
Which rating system should I choose? (see the text for details)
33 voters
Single choice
Sign in to participate in this poll.
Poll results will be visible after you vote or when the poll closes.
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#106
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60187
If you age by 1/10, then even if the game is very bad compared to the previous one, the rating will likely not decrease.
I disagree. It all depends on the current rating.

The bonus for winning will be the same for all players, but the 10% aging will represent a different burden for each player... And the load on the leader will be significantly higher than on the underdog. I don't think I need to provide the numbers...

For example, if a player participates in every tournament and always wins, receiving 100 points, they will never rise above 1000. This is the absolute maximum rating. An underdog, having 200 points, will gain about 20-30 points per tournament with average play, but will stop somewhere around 500. Higher than that - no way... :)

Added after 7 minutes
IronAxe;60187

Tell that to Vasya Pupkin. You are currently advocating for the interests of consistently strong players. So whether it's better for everyone is debatable. :)
Okay... we're deviating from the main topic... :smile14: :D

But surely, the rating should attract someone, right? The rating isn't grails. The rating was originally intended for strong players who will pay attention to it. How else? Weak players need the rating to a lesser extent... An example of this is who is involved in creating the rating? In two months, I haven't seen a single opinion from a weak player...

Therefore, the rating is definitely created for those who see the potential to break into its top ranks. And the more strong players there are on the portal, the better it will be for everyone... Or will you say again that Vasya will suffer from this? :)
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#107
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60189
I disagree. Everything depends on the current rating.
The bonus for victory will be equal for all players, but the 10% decay for each will be a different burden... And the pressure on the leader will be significantly higher than on an underdog. I think there's no need to provide figures.
Where is this "equal bonus" — come on, give me some numbers then :) The leader gets 100, and the rest get it depending on how many days they took to finish and how close they got to the leader. And the leader doesn't care about 10%. He takes 100, and in the next tournament, he takes 100 again. Total: 90+100=190. And now he can take a long break thanks to you :) Because from 190, he will drop much slower than from 100. And with 1000, you'll be waiting forever. Vasya Pupkin is still going to crush you on the same map :)
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#108
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60187

And the point of the rating is lost if it is too stable and does not depend on random factors.
Oh! Golden words! Tell that to Gus Hiddink, and he will agree with you! :) Only those who do not see another way to prove their strength rely on chance. The harder it is to reach the top, the more excitement and interest there is... You play on Impossible difficulty for exactly that reason.

It's good that we have opposite views. Otherwise, we would have abandoned the idea of a rating a long time ago, I think... :)
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#109
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60189
But surely, the rating should attract at least someone, right? The rating isn't about grinding. The rating is initially for strong players who will pay attention to it. Otherwise, how? Weak players need the rating to a lesser extent... For example, look at who is involved in creating the rating? In two months, I haven't seen a single opinion from a weak player...
Therefore, the rating is definitely created for those who see themselves capable of reaching its top. And the more strong players there are on the portal, the better it will be for everyone... Or will you say again that Vasya will suffer from this? :)
The rating is a stupid thing – it doesn't want to attract anyone. It simply states the current state of affairs. A runner breaks his leg – he recovers for three years, gets back in shape, and remains almost at the top of the rating during this time, slowly falling. And the rest are sweating – they run in the Olympics – is that how it is? And they can't knock the lame runner off the rating?
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#110
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60191
Where is the equal bonus? Show me the numbers then.
Wait, I mean that for a victory, every player gets the same amount of points, regardless of their current rating... And the aging penalty hits the leader harder... You all understood, and please don't twist my words... ;)
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#111
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60192
Oh! Golden words! Tell that to Gus Hiddink, and he will agree with you! :) Only those who don't see another way to prove their strength rely on chance. The harder it is to break through to the top, the more excitement and interest there is... You play on Impossible difficulty for exactly that reason.
It's good that we have opposite views. Otherwise, we would have abandoned the idea of a rating system long ago, I think... :)
And who is this Gus? As for randomly breaking through – that's not about me. If you randomly break through when the difficulty is reduced by 1/3, you'll be quickly knocked down. Staying at the top is the real challenge under such harsh conditions.
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#112
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60193
The rating system is flawed – it doesn't encourage anyone. It simply reflects the current state of affairs. If a runner breaks their leg, they spend three years recovering, and during that time, they remain near the top of the ranking, slowly declining. Meanwhile, everyone else is running in the Olympics – is that how it works? And they can't seem to knock this limping runner off the top spot?
I don't really like your examples with abstract numbers... I'll send you a link to an archive of real tournament results in a private message. Take a dozen consecutive tournaments from there and calculate at your leisure how long it will take to knock the "limping runner" off the top, and for now, let's agree on
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#113
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60194
Hold on, I mean that for a victory, every player gets the same amount of points, regardless of their current rating... And the aging penalty hits the leader harder... You all understood, and please don't twist my words... ;)
What points are you talking about? I'm only talking about the CURRENT rating. For a victory, the leader gets 100. You suggested that. 20*100=2000 The leader is in first place for 20 days, and the second place is for 50 days. 1st place 2000/20=100 2nd place 2000/50=40 So,
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#114
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60195
If the damage is reduced by 1/3, and you happen to break through, they'll knock you down in no time. Staying at the top is the real challenge under such harsh conditions.
I agree, staying at the top under these conditions is almost impossible... :)
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#115
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60196
I don't really like your examples with abstract numbers... I'll send you a link to an archive of real tournament results in a private message. Take a dozen tournaments in a row and calculate at your leisure how long it will take to knock a player off the top, and in the meantime, let's agree on 1/10 and not argue... I'm sure that's a perfectly acceptable ratio...
I'm not against it, but I gave examples based on not entirely abstract numbers. And the formula is real. You'd better just tell me how much a player's rating will drop if they are playing poorly or losing several tournaments in a row. Let VDV and AlexPan think about how old they really are. Otherwise, we're just acting like
In reply to IronAxe
User Avatar
#116
Auto-translated
IronAxe;60197
What points are you talking about? I am talking only about the CURRENT rating.
There are two players - A (rating 850) and B (rating 250). For a victory, A will receive 100. If B wins - he will also be given 100 (regardless of the rating). BUT: as a result of decay, A will lose 85 in any case, while B will only lose 25. In total, in the best-case scenario for him, A earns 100-85=15 and B in the best case earns 100-25=75 rating points. This is what I call a greater burden on the leader... :)

Added after 2 minutes
IronAxe;60199
Let VDV and AlexPan worry about how much to decay. Otherwise, we're deciding everything as if we were the mods or some kind of administration here :)
Indeed, calculating ratings is not a job for us... We have more important things to do... Let those, what did you call them... mods calculate it... exactly...
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#117
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60198
I agree, staying at the top under these conditions is almost impossible... :)
Well, that's what makes it dynamic; many will reach the top, but with you, it's like one person climbs up, wins a couple of tournaments, and then disappears. Stronger players will quickly overtake him, and those in the middle and below will just watch as the player who vanished into the unknown plans his next move.
In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#118
Auto-translated
However, as I see it, we've sorted out most of the complex issues, and making a decision will be much easier. And the players should be the ones making the decisions, not the host or moderator... So, everything is being done correctly here...

Added 1 minute ago
IronAxe;60202
Well, at least there's some dynamism; many will reach the top, whereas with you, one person climbs to the top, wins a couple of tournaments, and leaves. Stronger players will quickly overtake him, and the average and lower-ranked players will watch as the player who disappeared in an unknown direction plans his next move.
Well, then it's easier not to overcomplicate things, but to post the results of the last tournament each time as the current ranking. This will be the most realistic... Want to be in the TOP - win every tournament... And if you don't play, you won't be there... This will be the clearest reflection of your position. Why bother with aging at all?

I suggest a time-out... time will tell... what was that about snowdrops? :)
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
User Avatar
#119
Auto-translated
AmberSoler;60200
There are two players - A (rating 850) and B (rating 250). For a victory, A will receive 100. If B wins, he will also receive 100 (regardless of rating). BUT: as a result of the "aging" system, A will lose 85 in any case, and B will only lose 25. In total, A will earn 100-85=15 points in the best-case scenario, and B will earn 100-25=75 points in the best-case scenario. This is what I call a greater burden for the leader... :)
In your case, with gradual declines, the leader will be able to accumulate a rating at which things will go badly for him. With my system, I don't think such numbers are in store for the leader. And what will you do when, without declines and adventures, the leader reaches 1000 and says, "Why am I playing for zero gain?" :)

Added 3 minutes ago
AmberSoler;60200

Indeed, it's not a leader's job to calculate ratings... We have more important things to do... Let those, whatever you call them... the moderators... calculate... yes, yes...
I just call them that for short, and my reputation is already taking a hit; we've been chatting all night. I don't think they'll be offended.

Added 4 minutes ago
AmberSoler;60203

Then it's simpler not to overcomplicate things, but to post the results of the last tournament each time as the current rating. This will be the most realistic... If you want to be in the TOP, win every tournament... And if you don't play, you won't be there... This will be the most accurate reflection of your position. Why have "aging" at all?
The rating should go up and down; in your case, if everyone plays, it will only go up. If you stop playing, maybe after a couple of years, you'll be washed away along with the accumulated players. :)
Okay, let the people figure out what's best for them. I think those who are interested will express their opinions and something will move forward
User Avatar
#120
Auto-translated
Huge thanks to the esteemed IronAxe and AmberSoler for their suggestions. But one request: could each of you present your full rating system in a single message? By the time I finished reading, I'd forgotten where I started. I'll calculate something truly wild for you ;).
Then, with the completed and formatted rating options right in front of us, we can decide what to add or remove. Where to put the grails in the end, and who to include in the rating table.
And overall, I believe that in the General table across all versions, there should also be a way to see the rating for each individual version. Naturally, someone playing only the second game won't beat an all-rounder in the general rating. But then it will be visible in the general table that they are a master of the second game. The general table is simply for convenience, so we can see everyone at once.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.