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Offline MjTh
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#17
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I agree, right up until the start of the game. If randomness isn't a factor. And in general, for mages, having 3 stacks of archers is a good strategy. Try to find a unicorn horn bow. It will give you a slight advantage. Many are concerned about the question: humans or mages? To make sure the knight gets what he deserves, choose either Faiz or Razzak. Golems, by the way, are one of the most durable units. And the mage has ways to help the golem; level him up, and the paladins will fall quickly from the very beginning.
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Offline Терзающий душу
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#18
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Many are wondering: humans or mages?

A lot of people are, yes. It's a real headache.
Paladins just get taken down right from the start.

Listening to you, it seems like everyone defeats them. Have you ever faced a decent player playing as humans? No? You're just good with words.

Тяжело в агонии, хорошо в гробу...
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Offline SAF
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#19
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Orakul is right, you are a very strong expert, MjTh:rolleyes: about the unicorn bow, it's nonsense - there won't be any small advantage, it will help mages as well as others, they already have archmages who can attack the entire battlefield.
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Offline Soljie
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#20
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Gremlins under Hafiz, with buffs, a charm, and Battle Blessings, deal insane damage; a Unicorn Bow would be very useful there.
Там бугага - там Ктулху бродит, Креведко на ветвях висит...
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Offline SAF
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#21
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What do Hafiz and gremlins have to do with it? MjTh says that three archers will result in a unicorn bow, which will give a slight advantage over other factions. What advantage, if archmages shoot at maximum range with or without a bow? That is, it will help mages just like everyone else: it will make two units shoot at the entire battlefield.
And by the way, the unicorn bow is available to any faction. Dugala's crossbowmen or Haggeesh's Kents with a bow will defeat Hafiz's gremlins, and Ossir won't even need a bow for that.
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Offline Soljie
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#22
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Well, I think it will still be the case, as the Academy has archers of level 7, while the other factions have lower levels, and as a result, the archers' strength is less. I just made a comment about Hafiz because there are many Gremlins, Hafiz levels up quickly, and their strength grows disproportionately faster than that of other archer specialists due to their numbers.
Там бугага - там Ктулху бродит, Креведко на ветвях висит...
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Offline Его Высокопреосвященство
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#23
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To ensure the Knight receives the recognition he deserves, choose either Faiz or Razzak. By the way, Golems are one of the most durable units.
Ha-ha, these Golems crack and break from a single attack by archers (red arbalests).
Well, I think it will still be the case, as the Academy has archers of level 7, while other factions have lower levels, and consequently, their archers are weaker. I just mentioned Hafiz because there are many Gremlins, Hafiz levels up quickly, and their strength grows disproportionately faster than other archer specialists due to their numbers.
That's true, Thunder Lizards incinerate everything if they have a bow. But still, this artifact is least useful for the Academy (and also for the Gnomes), as Gremlins are on the same level as skeleton archers and deal absolutely insignificant damage, even with Hafiz.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить.
Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
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Offline MjTh
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#24
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Well, I don't know how you guys play, but Titans without a penalty to their attack will defeat Paladins in two turns. I'm not an expert, but I have experience. I don't play Heroes often, but I've found myself in most situations. But in general, try it out first; I'm not just making hypotheses. A decent stack of Golems with the Golem March spell, Machine Devotion, and Luck, plus a minor artifact (+ to speed, + to luck, + to initiative, and also with light magic), will defeat Paladins while suffering minimal losses. Unlike Obsidian Golems. I personally don't take the third upgrade for Mages – it's useless and rarely helpful, except against Kshatriyas. Humans are stronger than Mages; there's nothing to compare. Razazak isn't effective; take Faiz instead. He'll reduce the resistance to magic attacks, and the units will finish them off. Or Nazir. You can fully upgrade him to level 21, and he'll have Pyrokinesis, Lucky Charm, and Empathy. Level him up correctly and find the appropriate artifacts, and then you might even see the undead horde win.
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Offline SAF
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#25
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Soljie
The archer academy has level 7, while other races have lower levels, and therefore, the archers are weaker.
So what if it’s level 7? And when is this level 7 built, in what week? And what is its growth rate? The advantage of level 7 archers only becomes apparent with a large number of them, and even then, the shooting can be easily countered.
I mentioned Hafiz because there are many gremlins, Hafiz levels up quickly, and their strength grows disproportionately faster than other archer specialists due to their numbers.
Hmm, but earlier you linked the archer's strength to its level, not its numbers. But no matter what, it’s not a given that there will be the most gremlins. Dugald can train a lot of archers who are formidable even without bows.
MjTh
Titans, without a penalty to shooting, will defeat paladins in two turns.
How many titans and how many paladins are needed for this scenario? And will no one think to apply evasion (massively) to the paladins?
Razak won’t work, take Faiz, he will remove the beam protection, and the units will finish them off.
And won’t the opponent, seeing Faiz as the main hero, think to learn stone skin and dispel magic, and in their mass forms? You have some strange opponents.
Or Nazir. You can level him up to level 21, and he will have pyrokinesis, a lucky mage, and empathy.
Doesn’t fire resistance mean anything to you? Nazir is a dubious hero, not suitable for rushing
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Offline Soljie
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#26
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Hmm, but above you linked the archer's strength to his level, not his numbers.
I don't like pointing out individual words, but I have to -
archery specialists
i.e., the Gremlin's archers are stronger than other archers of most other archery specialists, as they receive bonuses to attack/defense for every second level of the Hafiz, while others receive lower bonuses, i.e., Dugald has bonuses for every third level, Jezebeth for every fifth level, etc., and Vaishana doesn't even need to be considered, as she has a penalty for shooting and a growth of 7.
And the Titan is a strong archer in itself, isn't that obvious?
Dugald can train a lot of archers who are formidable even without a bow.
Dugald, yes, of course, is cool, but he doesn't even need a bow, his archers only need a blessing.
and even then, shooting can be easily countered.
Whether it can be countered or not, the point is about the usefulness of the bow for ranged units; it seems we won't convince each other, and each will stick to their opinion.
learn to dispel charms
As far as I remember, Disruption Ray is not dispelled by either dispelling charms or stone skin.
Там бугага - там Ктулху бродит, Креведко на ветвях висит...
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Offline Sanctuary
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#27
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What is the power of mages?
I think it's obvious:
In MAGIC.
Маласса ждёт...
Маласса знает...
Маласса за всеми наблюдает...
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Offline $an4es
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#28
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i.e., the Havoc's ranged attack is stronger than other ranged attacks of most other archer specialists because they receive attack/defense bonuses for every second level of the Havoc, while others have lower bonuses, i.e., Dugal has bonuses for every third level, Jezebel for every fifth level, etc.; Vaishana can even be disregarded due to the penalty for ranged attacks and a bonus of 7.

You're confusing it with the 3 heroes. In Heroes 5, all specialists give a bonus to attack and defense according to the formula 1+hero level/2.
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Offline MjTh
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#29
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to start with. Stone Skin only increases by 12, while Reduce reduces it to zero. There's no way to dispel Reduce. Only with antimagic. As for fire resistance, it only removes the effect of reducing defense. Otherwise, the Nazir will have a strong spell, and it will be weakened by half with those perks, but that's not a big deal. It's not a given that Dodge will appear. 1 in 3 chance. Knight is a versatile race, but everyone has weaknesses. In general, on a map with a mentor, take Winraehl, and with luck, the Knights will be good.

Added 2 hours 2 minutes ago
Well, here's a clear example: I played against Axel with Nazir. I didn't win, but I gave him a hard time. Hero builds: Axel: .
Nazir:
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Offline Его Высокопреосвященство
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#30
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Basically, I don't know how you play, but Titans without a penalty to their attack will defeat Paladins in two turns. I'm not an expert, but I have experience. I don't play Heroes often, but I've been in most of these situations. In general, try it out first; I'm not just making up hypotheses. A decent stack of Golems with the Golem March spell, Machine Allegiance, and Luck, plus minor artifacts (+ to speed, + to luck, + to initiative, and also with Light Magic), will defeat Paladins while suffering minimal losses. Unlike Obsidian Golems. I personally don't take the third upgrade for Mages – it's useless and rarely comes in handy, except against Kshatriyas. Humans are inherently stronger than Mages; what are you even comparing? Razazak won't work; take Faiza; he'll remove the beam protection, and the units will finish them off. Or Nazira. You can max him out to level 21, and he'll have Pyrokinesis, Lucky Charm, and Empathy. Level him up correctly, find the appropriate artifacts, and then you might even see the undead horde win.
Titans won't have time to fire before the Paladins reach them (in general, everything depends on the circumstances), and besides, even three attempts from the Titans won't kill well-defended Paladins. Golems are definitely not a match for Paladins, considering that their growth is only 4.5 times greater. How many of these Golems would you need for them to win? While these tin cans are moving, the Paladins will attack them twice, and the first ones will fall apart, even if they have Golem March. It seems like the Disruption Beam is easily countered by Stone Skin and Remove Curse.
Дайте мне всего шесть строк, написанных рукой самого честного человека, и я найду, за что его можно повесить.
Весьма хороший попутчик... До первого перекрестка.
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Offline SAF
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#31
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Soljie
Isn't it obvious that the Titan is a strong ranged attacker in itself?
I'm not denying that. Did I say it was weak? I'm saying that by the time you build them and get a decent number, other, lower-tier ranged units will already be quite strong. And the game doesn't always last that long, and you don't always have the necessary resources.
Whether you can counter it or not, the discussion is about the usefulness of the Unicorn's bow for ranged units. It seems we won't convince each other, and we'll each stick to our own opinion.
But the point is about the strength of mages and how it increases more compared to other races when they have the Unicorn's bow, so it's appropriate to mention evasion, etc. Anyway, I don't like pointless arguments and I don't really want to convince anyone.
As far as I remember, Dispel doesn't remove the Disarming Ray, nor does Stone Skin.
Stone Skin only increases it by 12, while Disarming Ray reduces it to zero. You can't dispel the ray. Only with antimagic.
I'm not claiming that Stone Skin removes the ray (I misspoke about dispelling, I admit). Let me clarify. To negate Stone Skin, you need to cast Disarming Ray three times (just in case, by "negate" I mean reduce the target's defense by more than Stone Skin increases it). Stone Skin is applied to all creatures, while Disarming Ray is an area-of-effect spell. So, how many times would you need to cast Disarming Ray to reduce the defense to 0? Since the hero is Faiaz, he'll have Dark Magic, so wouldn't it be logical to use not only Disarming Ray but also other Dark Magic spells, such as Berserk or Dominate? Okay, let's say Faiaz only casts Disarming Ray on everyone. Will the opponent just stand there, or will they attack and cast buffs on their troops? And when the defense is reduced to a critical level, you can cast antimagic, which the Knight always tries to get when playing against Dark Magic (of course, it might not be available, it depends on the map and luck).

MjTh, fire resistance also reduces fire damage by 50%, which is very unpleasant for Nazir, the fire specialist. He can definitely damage the Knight's army, no doubt, but achieving victory will be difficult.
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