Posts from Турниры HeroesWorld Cup & World Cup - 2012

started a transaction with Thinkeer: 629,442,651.

Is no one streaming? Because I can’t access Mikigo anymore.

You guys are getting off-topic.
Javdet:
1 You're contradicting yourself in your post; first, you say it looks like a maphack, and then, when you found out who the author is, you started to backpedal.
2 If you're so sure you can beat any player, then show us 5 identical replays.
Regarding all the saves, you can certainly look at them all, but that's like looking at the frame of a picture, and if you look at everything at once, you might miss the main point...

Could you shed some light on this?
In the second game, there wasn't really anywhere to go on Jeba, and in the 5th, nothing much happened either....
But as for the first save, what logical justification could there be for finding such a lost Dragon Utopia in the corner? Scouting the land only showed that an orange computer was in that direction, but completely further off; scouting the air also only showed a couple of artifacts in that corner... what's the point of jumping there???
And I don't quite understand why Pandoras aren't being taken:confused: the strength of the guards isn't a 100% indicator of the contents, is it?

You folks are steering the topic in the wrong direction.
Javdet :
1 You contradict yourself in your post — first you say it looks like maphack, then when you found out who the author is, you started dodging.
2 If you're so sure you can do it to any player, then bring at least 5 identical clips to the studio.
As for all the saves, you can of course look through everything, but that's like looking beyond the frame of a painting, and if you look at everything indiscriminately, you might miss the main point...

1 I'm not dodging. I still hold the same opinion about the 1st save, the other two are forced. As for Pandoras... well, I dunno.. if you ALWAYS take Pandoras with the main stack, that doesn't mean this approach is the only correct one. Purely theoretically, imagine there are comrades who, out of principle, don't take them with the main..
I'll repeat again — you need to look at the MAXIMUM number of games to identify the regularity of blind jumps, skill choices, who takes Pandoras, and even which direction they run at a fork..
2 Too lazy.
In any game, you have to make choices, and in principle, every successful move in the right direction can already be interpreted as a hack — the main thing is to sort them properly. From my own last game: when I saw how the opponent was eating Dragon Utopias that I considered mine, I make an illogical move — through a Pandora, I go into a Dragon Utopia with a weak army. In the Pandora is all the land, which is very convenient. And literally a day later, I pick up Alertness from the Scholar in the last slot))) If you take the first moment as a hack and forget about the second, and gather another five similar ones, then there you have the full picture.
In short, here's my point. We need to analyze the percentage of correct vs incorrect decisions. 60/40 and even 70/30 is normal. But if it's higher — it's worth thinking about

We need to analyze the percentage of correct/incorrect decisions. 60/40 and even 70/30 is normal. But if it's more than that, it's worth thinking about

Decisions cannot be correct or incorrect. I would say a decision either has or does not have an adequate explanation based on the player's skill. If it does—no matter how suspicious or lucky the situation looks—you cannot claim maphack (unless it happens constantly).

I checked all the saves. Two of them are puzzling: with Ivor' same Pandoras and with Shakti's utopia. Neither the player in private correspondence nor I myself, no matter how hard I tried to find one, could provide an adequate explanation (and there is no question here of ownubness or reasons derived from it).

I have met this player in live Tournaments. When I was asked during the World Championship, I recommended him positively.
Sad...

Well, go ahead and post Reba's explanations. All we have are comments like "the excuses are even worse than the saves." It would be interesting to read.

Added 17 minutes later

I looked at all the saves.

Again. Which saves did you look at? Blackknight's selection??? These saves are similar to a talk show where they impose the desired opinion. I'm not trying to defend my position (or defend Reba) at all costs – I just want to understand. Even if we take a selection of our games, I can easily come up with a top 5 similar saves, just like you. But you need to look at the whole game, because with normal gameplay, there will definitely be moments where he guessed wrong, ran in the wrong direction, etc.

Well, post Reba's explanations. Otherwise there's only talk like "excuses are even worse than saves". I'd be interested to read them.

Nobody will post them. Because nobody wanted or intended to listen to me or get to the heart of the matter. And I think everything was decided beforehand. Since Redwhite and Neo voiced a clear, unsubstantiated opinion of a general nature, without any arguments or specifics, showing a desire to quickly distance themselves from this issue, in favor of an invisible puppet master. Whether out of laziness, conformism, or personal grudges (and I allow that), they're swimming in "fat" (the vanity of existence) and are only driven by the inertia of awkward, mismatched flailings of their own shell. That was a bit of prose about "associates."
And the fact that everything is somehow hastily and mysteriously cobbled together makes the overall picture absurd and purely provocative.

More to the point.

Decisions cannot be right or wrong. A decision, I'd say, either has or doesn't have an explanation adequate to the player's skill. If it does - no matter how suspicious or lucky the situation looks - you cannot claim maphack (unless it happens constantly).

This is only suitable for describing and modeling ideal situations (rational). In practice (in the game) - it's far from that. And the prevalence of irrational components and motives is quite common and can be a dominant factor. If I can't make a clear choice in a situation, then what choice should there be at all? Also important is that rational (optimal) and winning game models do not coincide. And most importantly, these models have many variations (applicable to players). That is, don't measure everyone by your own yardstick.
Specifically to the point

I looked at all the saves. Two were puzzling: the Pandora's Boxes with Ivor and the Utopia with Shakti. The player didn't give adequate explanations in personal correspondence, and I couldn't find any myself no matter how hard I tried (noobishness and derivative reasons are out of the question here).

Now pay triple attention.
Neo contacted me on ICQ with some vague suggestion that foreign opponents were interested in my games. Well, I thought, wow, they're showing interest! But it turned out Neo couldn't bring himself to say something like "they're interested in terms of cheating." And I, it turns out, was supposed to somehow telepathically pick up on that information and accept it. But I took that calmly too, since I often play on GameRanger, where a certain part of the rather diverse audience believes that if an opponent takes a long time (more than 4 minutes) or has very strong armies, then he's most likely cheating.
So, Neo did ask me, but only about two saves, and not quite the ones he mentioned here himself. Why this deceit or understatement?
About the first save he immediately admitted it was "nothing," though what that implied... And still he asked why I took the Pandora's Box with Iona and not with Crag Hack. Honestly, I didn't really want to answer, as a future opponent, about my maneuvers. I said Crag Hack needs to fight, and getting a bonus in the form of troops, magic, or gold is better spent using Iona's turn. And if we're counting MP, the cost for that Pandora's Box is 291 MP, not the 100 Neo stated. And that Crag Hack absolutely had to break into the town to reach the external creature dwelling on turn 117, to flag it, and at the same time grab the shield +3+3 and upgrades (and actually turn 116 was almost the most important turn) - and I already told Sticky and Javdet and Neo himself about this when I reconstructed the entire sequence of events. The Pandora's Box not taken by Crag Hack is obvious, but that behind it lies the issue of capturing a key external dwelling - nobody notices that!
-- --
Neo did NOT ask me about the save with Shakti's Utopia!!! Well, if it puzzled you, then ask! So he showed indifference or didn't even look at it. But he made a conclusion!
-- --
There was a conversation with Neo about Ivor and the Pandora's Boxes. Details are very important here (as it turns out over time). I couldn't understand what the catch was myself. I compared - and found it. First of all, you need to pay attention to the resource and gold line. Almost everything is down to zero. Exchanged just enough to buy the maximum army and kill the basilisks. Then a mage guild is built in the Necro village, and after attacking the dendroids, Ivor does NOT take the Pandora's Box behind them, but goes on foot to the Necro village to replenish mana (and only buys the spell book the next day, since there's no gold) via teleporter, and does NOT break movement with 244 MP remaining, as Neo told me. Every penny is calculated to the limit, there can be no question of breaking movement. How, in what way did Neo decide that Ivor breaks movement going to the Necro town, rather than walking? So it turns out he simply didn't look at the save, because he doesn't know the details! And that some analyst - did tip him off. Since Sticky during the questioning also thought Ivor didn't walk to the city via teleporter. What a mess! Regarding the situation, I should still note that if Ivor does take the Pandora's Box, he makes it to the city just barely (50 MP remaining), which would have been very risky and unfortunate if he hadn't made it - and this is considering the uncertainty of MP consumption when passing through the teleporter to the city.
-- --
And again I have to note the superficial attitude toward the situation by the "authorities"... or perhaps deliberately? How many more black threads do you have?

Once again, we have to acknowledge the superficial attitude of the "authorities" towards the situation... or maybe it's intentional? How many more black threads do you have left?

And such arrangements, and especially what you wrote on the Heroes of Might and Magic forum, don't do you any favors.

Let's close the Rebe topic.

Now, let's talk about Oelma. Why would he need to watch other games in the tournament while he's playing his own?
This applies to more than just Oelma...

Once again, we have to acknowledge the superficial attitude of the "authorities" towards the situation... or maybe it's intentional? How many more loose ends do you have?

a scenario in the style of Tymoshenko

It is doubly sad that from being a main defender, he practically became almost the main prosecutor.
You know how to write well and intelligently about situations and puppet masters, about motives and small inconsistencies. If only you had directed your skill toward describing the save situations when both I and Sticky asked you, and you either joked it off or resorted to personal attacks, attributing delusional motives — it gave the impression that it was due to a lack of adequate explanations.
Now, about the saves once more (initially, I evaluated them from a defensive standpoint, I think that will be evident).
1. Pandora with Crag Hack.
I immediately told Black and Sticky that it's nonsense as an argument for cheating, even without your explanations. I didn't calculate your MP reserve for breaking into the town (which could be done as part of analysis for explanations — I won't believe you don't know how to calculate MP), but if they are insufficient for your in-game plans, the main thing, considering the guards and experience from Jebus Cross games, is that there will rarely be experience there. Therefore, leaving it to a noob is not a crime. Although 5K experience to a main hero on the first week is still important.

2. Splitting Tazar into the Dungeon and taking the Dragon Utopia — an in-game situation. I see nothing strange about it. Except, maybe, not upgrading cats into 1 stack, not trading all resources just in case Crag Hack with MP bonuses could reach it. But that's also not an argument.

3. Crag Hack taking the Town Portal in the fog of war.
It would seem — there it is! He didn't see it, but went and took it, and it's not scary that he's cut off from the army. Many think — if he took it in the fog of war, that's it, he's a cheater.
That's not the case. If there's logic for a closed map (as Vic wrote in the article), then it's a gameplay moment. This is one such example. I don't need a player's explanations to see and evaluate the situation in this case. There's a view of the underground, the Jebus Cross template. Where else could Crag go? — exactly where he went. Even on a gamble, it's justified, since a significant part of the scarce treasure zone is concentrated precisely there.

4. Pandora with Ivor.
And again Pandoras.. The frequency of coincidences is already alarming, but that's not the main thing. The main thing is the thought process and the player's explanation.
"Where would it go?" (c) said the player who doesn't throw 100-200MP to the wind. But here, leaving a Pandora to pick it up later from the Necropolis — that's a loss of more than 1000MP. And if the plan was to buy the book and then return for the Pandora, then you'd take both with the book already. But as it is, with experience we take it without the book, and with magic we leave it for later.
The player also cited a time crunch for calculating MP.
In reality, the turn at 10 minutes isn't complicated. The plan to land in the Necro village was there from the start. Measuring Lyon's MP before Teleport, from the Teleport cell to the village, as well as Ivor's MP from the 2nd Pandora to the Teleport — it's not a tricky matter and for a player of this level, even simple. I had 85MP left in reserve after taking the Pandora and running to the Castle.
Yes — not much, yes risky (and who doesn't take risks?), but it's not logical, and personally, I, to put it mildly, did not believe it here, no matter how hard I tried.

Almost forgot. I really didn't watch the replay right away and didn't see that the player was exchanging all resources for the fight with the Basilisks, planning to then buy the book in the Necropolis (where, by the way, having Slow magic is available). And then the question arose: wouldn't it be easier not to spend a ton of money dumping resources, punch through the Wood Elves, take the Pandora, buy the book in the Necropolis, and return with magic and mana for the Pandora closer to the Teleport. But that's just if we logically start from the plans...

5. Dragon Utopia with the Miner on 8mm6a.
The explanation for this save was told to me by Sticky — so I didn't ask. I don't think that for a judge they would be one thing, and for someone else — another.
The goal was to take the orange computer. And also to find a foothold for a jump, strolling through the respawn's rear, so as not to approach the computer within 1 day's distance, to avoid spooking it and driving it into the castle :smile48:

The Miner, having Dimension Door and View Air, sees where he needs to head (in theory) — in the metro to the right of his Necropolis with an observatory, there's a ton of stars.
But on Turn 212 he goes to take a Crypt with his main hero :smile09:, there, having 165 mana and 11 Knowledge, he is lured by the Well, and from there he already sees the Hive and a Level 3 Griffin Conservatory.
While the short path to the orange computer is visible through sight from the middle (territorially) Dungeon through the Naga Bank and the Griffin Conservatory (which is better than the Crypt). But there is no Dragon Utopia along that path.

Overall, I said just like Roman — that you need to look at the dynamics, more games, habits/methods of the player, etc., but unfortunately in this tournament, it was what it was.

P.S.: Roma, do you remember the red ball in the Dragon Utopia? :)
(I gave this example to both Sticky and Pete — that one shouldn't make hasty conclusions from the saves themselves, but should evaluate the explanations).

Overall, the situation is very unpleasant, I was hoping I wouldn't have to play against Pete :rolleyes:

Yesterday we played our first game against Thinkeer. I lost, but I enjoyed the game because the rolls were excellent!! I made another mistake in my calculations, and when I went for the Citadel, the army there turned out to be larger than I expected, so I couldn't break the defense... Today I looked at the saves, I don't want to write a report or confirm anything yet... I want to upload the saves for review and get your opinion... Personally, several moments in the game surprise me... 1) The fact that the opponent ran with the main to the secondary respawn without scouting, well, that's fine... he found a treasure there and only visited the library, didn't check what else was there, then he comes out and runs to another treasure, grabbing the necessary items there, but doesn't run further and instead breaks into the castle, taking the consulate and going on defense right at the moment when I was breaking ГО the next turn and attacking... I don't see much point in such moves unless the opponent didn't know that I was going to break GO. + I opened the save from day one and started looking at his hero's skill tree, and there I saw that he gets Air Magic at level 4 and Earth Magic at level 5 but doesn't take it... then he levels Logistics and Tactics, gets Armorer, and then Earth Magic again. Of course, there are options that it will appear again, but if you know what will appear, then getting certain skills before others might be more advantageous... perhaps I'm wrong and he played everything correctly. I just want to know your opinion...

I watched Gomunguls's game – it was surprising how the opponent managed to be in the castle with his entire army at just the right time. By the way, if Vistan had a little more mana, enough for at least one spell, the battle for the red castle could have turned out completely differently.

P.S. Please enlighten me, as I don't know English: I understand that Rebellious was disqualified for maphacking, and PiT for LM is still in the competition? Hmm, I thought people at that level wouldn't use cheats.

No one will post it because no one wanted to listen to me or understand the essence of the matter. And I think that everything was decided in advance. Since Redwhite and Neo expressed a clear, unsubstantiated opinion of a general nature, without any arguments or specifics, showing a desire to quickly distance themselves from this issue, in favor of an invisible puppet master. Whether it's due to laziness, conformism, or personal grudges (and I admit this is possible), they have become complacent and are only controlled by the inertia of their clumsy, uncoordinated movements. This was a bit of prose about the "accomplices."
And the fact that everything is somehow hastily put together, mysteriously, makes the whole picture absurd and purely provocative.

I even politely asked you on HP to explain your vision regarding the saves.
You replied to me.
"The train has left. I don't associate with scoundrels." And now you're saying here that I just want to quickly close the deal and get Pete further along. If that's what I wanted, I would have eliminated you in the qualifying round for your delusional whims, as you know, against whom. :smile48:
I was also leaning towards your side, but now, I'm sorry, it's not meant to be.