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Posts from "Новичок-2012. Winter"

Tournament History online Closed Topic
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Dimast
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28.02.2012. Dimast (red castle Valeska) def ariputra (blue dungeon Shakti) 126 Panic.
On day 1 I put horses in the castle Valya got air magic and tactics (valuable against dungeon) farmed 10 levels on respawn, on day 2 I left it, scout heroes scouted the entire respawn, decided to hit archmages, and at that moment Shakti runs in through the shifted guard, later justifying it by saying that:

""ariputra22:45
it wouldn't have changed anything
plus they are positioned there in such a way that I thought you had already broken through"

As it would later turn out, this phrase was blatant lies.

Not finding Skorpiona or any of the judges online, I showed the map to a regular player so he could judge whether I was right or not, not a judge of this tournament, and received the answer that the aura of vision was shining on Valya from the respawn exit every day, and those genies too, thus he knew that I was not there, had not broken through the guard, and still ignored it.
Why was this done: to not waste moves and dive into the mire, or to not waste the mana of tier-1 units to be genies, or simply "what if he doesn't notice, I'll run from the darkness, kill him, and get the win," I don't know. But the fact remains, and the opponent does not deny the violation of the rules. Based on this, I ask to award the opponent a technical loss; if this basis is insufficient, then a loss to me for having consulted and shown the map to outsiders after the rule violation and learned about the aura of vision.




Here is a picture.
Since the discussion is already about me having shown the save to an outsider, and I get a loss for that, I will post it for everyone to see, the map from the opponent's perspective, Valya runs into the darkness, it is clear that he does not touch the genies and they are shifted, a day later Shakti zips along the path behind her without killing the genies. The phrase "I thought you had killed them" is certainly out of place here, seeing all of Valeska's moves, but judge for yourselves which of us deserves the loss
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ariputra
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but comments :)

are you really trying to win like this?

first, you took a phrase out of context; if you're going to do that, provide the whole conversation.

second, what blatant lie are you talking about? Why, what's the point of me intentionally ignoring them (having expert slowdown and 60 mana) in order to "not waste moves and get into a fight," what's the point? To gain a couple of extra move points and get wrecked?

before that, the second guard near the swampy area was taken out; one of them was standing on the road, the other was moved. After clearing out the vampires and elementals, I really thought that if I had even the slightest doubt, I would have taken them out. Why would I intentionally risk it for a few move points?

plus, I only saw Valesk for one turn, on turn 124; neither before nor after did I see her. Just as you didn't attack the djinn, I didn't see it either (I was watching a movie during your turn).

on turn 126, I passed by the djinn (which would have taken 1 move off the road, not two or three), killed three of your knights, moving from one to another instead of going after Valesk on the road, to which you said that if I had attacked them, I wouldn't have been able to reach the knights. My response was your quote:

""ariputra22:45
it wouldn't have changed anything
plus, they're positioned in such a way that I thought you had already attacked them"

well, I really thought you had attacked the guard and just didn't want to go there, considering that I had seen this area from the overview on turn 121. I admit that from the outside, it all looked at least very strange and suspicious. Frequent disconnects on my part added to the fatigue, plus we were playing at night, so I got tired and made a mistake.

third, I acknowledged this fact immediately after you told me about it.
Couldn't find Scorpion online, nor any of the judges.
was online


plus, you told me that tomorrow we would decide with the organizers whether or not to do something about it, after which you showed the saves to someone unknown and, based on their information, you accuse me of lying, and before any decision is made by the organizers, you yourself open the saves. In your story, I come across as a complete jerk, and you are portrayed as innocent and fluffy. At the very least, all of this is not very nice.

due to the mutual violations, I suggest that we continue playing.
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Kilgor
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Well... no matter which forum section you visit, someone is always trying to prove something. Replay the game and that's it.
As I understand it, this is a screenshot from day 126, and if he picked up the lookout tower on day 124, let's say, then I can certainly assume that the guard was broken by you on, say, day 121 and you are heading back. This is a beginners' tournament, so mistakes can happen.

P.S. Besides, if he could defeat the genies without any issues (having oil available), then it becomes even more obvious that this was a simple mistake, not a deliberate violation of the rules.
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HellLighT
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Tootsie Pie
27.02.2012 Tootsie Pie (blue, Fortress, Wystan, Wystan) def HellLighT (red, Tower, Solmyr, Solmyr) 2sm4d3 141
Haven't played in a while, agreed on a sm-game, opponent wasn't in form and slipped up already during the pre-draw (spawned on castle-swamp).
111 - external dwellings of lizardmen and gorgons visible, 112 - second gorgon, 113 - take the 1st, 115 - break through 20+ demons and 30+ ice elementals onto the grass, 115 - 8 heroes, 2nd external dwelling taken, 116 - 1st crypt (minimum%), 117 - run off-road to the 2nd external dwelling of lizardmen and find the Golden Bow! which practically never came in handy afterwards). The freebie ended here - Wystan levels up in the worst manner of Valeska (6th level - Wisdom, 9th - Learning), no roads to the treasure zone, arrow blockers too.. At 121 I check a Griffin Conservatory off-road - a 2), take it, 123 break through to the 2nd Griffin Conservatory on the other side of the map - a 1(, break into the treasure zone - there's a Hive - pre-Minotaur. 127 - hydras in the castle, 131 I decide to attack the Utopia with 30 gorgons and 15 Wyverns, the feeding consisting of 20 dwarves and 12 basilisks ends by the 3rd round - I come out with 22 cows(((and the Sword +5 All, and the Sphere of Permanence - but even without them - Solmyr wasn't building the Mage Guild, external dwellings were gremlins and djinns, with ultimate Griffin Conservatories not much better). In short, reached the red castle, chased after Solmyr into the treasure zone, he throws with 50+ magi((
Thanks for the game;) the generator rules)
I confirm, there was still a restart left, but at first glance the layout was very good, broke through immediately to grass-secondary (Rampart), saw external dwellings of gremlins, djinns and giants (which turned out to be behind blocks in the middle of nowhere) decided to play. Everything went wrong from the very start, poorly spread out, chains barely worked, all crypts were minimums, by 117 I had 123456 in the fort, beat a Pandora's Box on necro-secondary for 25 gr liches, lost 3 djinns - got 35 spirits, beat a Pandora's Box for 24 snipers, lost 35 spirits - got 50 centaurs (already smelling horse shi... oh sorry, the smell of victory) the only 2 Griffin Conservatories on the grass, both turned out to be Throne ones with a huge stack, no tempo at all, Solmyr barely levels up by the time I considered acceptable for taking the Griffin Conservatories at 131 the opponent appeared and didn't let me take even the second Griffin Conservatory, attacked with a scout hero, and his stats are an order of magnitude higher, more meat and the Sphere of Permanence, tried to play to the end, ran Solmyr into the treasure zone, but who knew that behind the Collar +1 round of spells and the Griffin Conservatory, there would be 91 magi :D and I didn't attack with all my meat... thanks for the game
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In reply to ariputra
Dimast
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ariputra

Well, I really did think that you cleared the guards and just didn’t want to go there, considering that I saw this area from my vantage point at 121. I admit that from the outside, it all looked at least very strange and suspicious. Frequent disconnects on my part added to the fatigue, plus we were playing at night, so I got tired and made a mistake.

Thirdly, I acknowledged this fact immediately after you told me about it.
I won’t even mention the strangeness and suspiciousness of the whole game, because there’s no smoke without fire, and here there was a blatant violation of the rules. The rules are below, and the fact that the opponent acknowledges this is above. I don’t have time to make screenshots of my messages to the judges right now, and there’s no point in it. As for the fact that GOД appeared online at 3 a.m. and didn’t respond, I don’t understand what this picture is supposed to prove, and this history of the ICQ chat doesn’t show him being online. I even sent him about 12 authorization requests. And in general, what difference does it make what happened after that? As for the victory, I play for fun, and this game didn’t bring me any pleasure, it just annoyed me from the very beginning (there’s also a history of that), but there’s no need to bring that up here. We’re talking about a violation, and you admitted it. I don’t see any point in dragging this out any further. And these excuses about “I thought,” when you had several vantage points and could see my moves starting from when I left the spawn, but you didn’t look at them. Why? You were watching a movie, preparing to rush, and you weren’t paying attention to what Valya was doing, who she was attacking, and where she was running. If you have nothing to say, it’s better to stay silent and admit defeat than to post some incomprehensible pictures where you didn’t get a response in ICQ and come up with some made-up excuses. There are rules, and there is a violation.

5.6.5. It is allowed to pass by the guards of a passage without destroying them, if
- the player has already passed through this passage (i.e., destroyed one of the guards);
- the player saw the opponent destroy one of the guards or pass through this passage;
- there is other irrefutable evidence that the guard was destroyed.
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ariputra
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Well, since it has come to this... Initially, the main point of your accusation was blatant lies, now it's a gross violation of the rules.

I won't even mention the strangeness and suspiciousness of the entire game, because you can't catch a thief if they don't get caught.
You're being strangely silent.

And here is a blatant violation of the rules.
Isn't opening the save files a blatant violation?

I don't have time to take screenshots of my messages to the judges right now, and there's no point.
Why take screenshots when there's a log of messages, and why is there even a point?

And the fact that GOД came online at 3 a.m. and didn't respond, I don't understand what this picture has to do with it, and this story about him being online in ICQ isn't reflected in it. I even sent him another authorization request around 12.
The point is that he was online. What prevented you from waiting for him until 3 a.m. or tomorrow and discussing everything with him or another organizer first, before posting it all on the forum?

And in general, what difference does it make what happened after that?
So, the fact that I violated the rules due to human error gives you the right to open save files (obviously, you did it because of the same human error, you got hot-headed, rushed, etc.) before discussing this issue with the judges?

Regarding the victory, no, I play for fun, and this game wasn't fun, it was annoying from the very beginning (there's also a history).
If you're hinting at disconnections, I warned you right away that they were very likely at that time, plus after the 3rd disconnection, I suggested that we pause, but you refused:
255445640 (23:20:58 27/02/2012)
I warned you right away.
255445640 (23:21:10 27/02/2012)
It gets worse in the evening.
255445640 (23:21:16 27/02/2012)
People go online.
255445640 (23:21:40 27/02/2012)
We can postpone it.

dimassstttt (23:22:38 27/02/2012)
Yes, let's play, maybe it will get better.
dimassstttt (23:23:08 27/02/2012)
Even 2-3 disconnections a week aren't fatal.

But it's not relevant here.
So, why did you even start all this mess if you think it's not relevant? You could have solved everything in ICQ.

We're talking about a violation, and you admitted it, so I don't see the point in dwelling on it further.
Admitted.
dimassstttt (02:05:24 28/02/2012)
Scorpion will come, let him decide.

The point is that, instead of that, you sent the save file to a person who has nothing to do with judging, and you got information from him. Why the rush when there's still so much time left before the end of the 2nd round?
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Dimast
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Dude, you broke the rules. At first, I thought it was a debatable moment and wanted to wait for a judge, but then I reread it and realized that it wasn't even a debatable moment, but a 100% win for me. I calmly opened the save, took screenshots, and am now posting on the forum to claim my victory because you broke the rules. The match is over. I'm not going to sit around waiting for a judge until 3 a.m. just because you have nothing else to do at night. I have a family and a job. If you disagree with your loss, here's rule 5.6.5 below; use it to explain why you broke it, etc. Due to the human factor, it's possible to mess up, but now we have to replay every game because of every mistake and rule violation? And no one forbids opening saves after the match is over. I posted a report, then decided to add a picture to make it clearer, so I opened the save, took a screenshot, and added it. As I said before, after rereading the rules, this moment is no longer debatable for me. There was a violation, and you're not denying it. So, what's next? Are you going to keep whining about the "human factor" and other nonsense? They even give technical defeats for one wrong move, even after a victory. Something like that happened on Lyubimchik between SkyPioneer and Britvochka. Sky won, but he took an artifact first and then killed the guard, saving himself a couple of moves, and he got a technical defeat for it. If you don't want to keep arguing, take the report and prove that you didn't violate anything. Your statement that you thought I killed them was a blatant lie, especially since you knew all my movements. How could you think I killed them if you saw all my moves and how I bypassed the guard and exited the spawn area, and how I then moved into the darkness? You saw all of this. 5.6.5. It is allowed to pass by the guards of a passage without destroying them if: - the player has already passed through this passage (i.e., destroyed one of the guards); - the player saw the opponent destroy one of the guards or pass through this passage; - there is any other undeniable evidence that the guard was destroyed
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Oelm
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Dimast, why didn't you immediately point out to your opponent that he ran past the guards? Considering that, as I understand it, the time was three in the morning, and besides, do you really need such a victory?
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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Kilgor
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This is a contentious issue until the players agree on it or the judge makes a decision...
And there is also such a clause in the rules:
"The judge's decision is based on the seasonal rules, elementary logic, and gaming ethics."

P.S. Stop arguing, the judges will come and make a verdict.
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Sevan_80
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ariputra

Well, I really thought you cleared the guards and just didn't want to go there, considering I saw that area from the overview at level 121. I admit that from the outside, it all looked at least very strange and suspicious. Frequent disconnects on my part added to the fatigue, plus we were playing at night, so I got tired and made a mistake.
Timofey, you're not a newbie anymore (as strange as it sounds).
5.6. Transitions between zones.
5.6.1. To pass from one zone to another through a specific passage, it is necessary to eliminate the guards of that passage. If there are several guards at the passage, it is enough to destroy any one of them.
5.6.5. It is allowed to pass by the passage guards without destroying them, in case:
- the player has already passed through this passage (i.e., destroyed one of the guards);
- the player saw the opponent destroy one of the guards or pass through this passage;
- there is any other undeniable evidence that the guards were destroyed.
Dimast

Not finding Scorpion or any of the judges online, I showed the map to a regular player so that he could judge whether I was right or not, not a judge of this tournament, and received the answer that the overview clearly showed Valya leaving the spawn every day, and these genies too, so he knew that I wasn't there, didn't clear the guards, and still ignored them......
... Based on this, I ask that you award me the victory, and if this is not enough, then I will be penalized for consulting and showing the map to third parties after violating the rules and learning about the overview.
1. A tournament participant must:
If there is suspicion of any form of unfair play, the tournament participant must contact either the Organizer, or the Tournament Judge, or any member of the AC. The Organizer must review the presented facts and, if, in his opinion, they are justified, contact the AC, which makes a decision on this issue and imposes a penalty if the accusations are confirmed.
In general, my opinion is that all this can be resolved between yourselves immediately, up to a replay, and not to flood the forum
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ariputra
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I calmly opened the save, took screenshots, and am claiming my victory on the forum, because you broke the rules, the game is over.


It's not over at all; it will be over when there is confirmation or a decision from the organizer. You opened the saves before any confirmation or decision., what if the judge had decided to order a replay or continue?

We agreed that the organizers would decide tomorrow — those are your words, not mine. If you say something, stand by your words.

That was a blatant lie, your comment about thinking I had killed them, even though you knew all my movements. How could you think I killed them if you saw all my moves and how I scouted the exit from the spawn, and then moved into the fog of war? You saw all of this.

I'm telling you again, I didn't see anything. I saw Valessa standing next to the Medusa stash, then she disappeared. Three carriers appeared near the passage. I was tired, yawned, and walked past the only guard (thinking you had scouted one of them). Scouting the Genies in that situation wouldn't have changed anything at all; I would still have killed your three scout heroes and reached the same point. If nothing would have changed, then why should this result in a tech loss? For example, in a situation where an artifact blocks the path to the monster guarding it, it is still allowed to take the artifact first and then scout the monster without equipping it. Here, when the scouting has no effect at all, is this a serious violation?

Dude, you broke the rules.
Dude, you broke the rules too.

1. A tournament participant is obliged to:
If any form of unfair play is suspected, the tournament participant must contact either the Organizer, the Tournament Judge, or any member of the AC. The Organizer must review the presented facts and, if they consider them substantiated, contact the AC, which makes a decision on this matter and imposes a penalty if the accusations are confirmed.

And after that, you say you play for fun?
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Dirty_Player
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It’s clear that the problem isn’t so much about violations, but rather that people don’t know how to behave correctly in controversial situations. Although the rules, which everyone keeps referring to, contain the following point (although for some reason, no one reads it):
Fair Play
The most important point: players must play fairly and respect each other.
- It is forbidden to use cheat codes or any kind of “bugs” during the game.
- No one, except the judge/tournament organizer or a member of the arbitration committee, is allowed to open unfinished game saves, and only in the event of a controversial situation in the game. If, at the moment a controversial situation arises that requires opening the saves, there is no connection with the judge/organizer/arbitration committee, the game must be interrupted and saved by both participants until they can connect with the judges.
- It is forbidden to open the map in the editor on which the game is being played until the game is over.
The game is considered finished when one player has completely destroyed the other, or one of them has surrendered, which must be confirmed via ICQ. Only after this is it allowed to open the saves and view the map in the editor.
Players who agreed to play are responsible for all actions that occur on their computers during the game and/or are related to the unfinished game.
It’s all written simply and clearly. How could anyone have given the saves to someone? :confused: What does this someone have to do with the tournament? Even I don’t look at controversial saves if I’m not the tournament judge. Some players continue the game with the thought: "He broke the rules, but we’ll finish the game now, and if I lose, we’ll sort it out." Isn’t that stupid? Controversial situations should be resolved immediately, either with the opponent or with the judge/organizer.
In this situation, the best thing to do would have been to point out the mistake to the opponent and replay one turn.
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In reply to Oelm
Dimast
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Oelm
Dimast, why didn't you immediately point out to your opponent that he ran past the guards? Considering that, as I understand it, it was three in the morning, and besides, do you really need such a victory?

I immediately pointed it out to him; he was quickly killing three of my horses. At that moment, I didn't notice that they weren't defeated. After I saw that the djinns were standing there, I immediately messaged him on ICQ and left the game without making my move.

Added 3 minutes later
Dirty_Player
Some players continue the game with the thought: "He broke the rules, but we'll finish the game, and if I lose, we'll sort it out." Isn't that stupid?

Yes, it's stupid, and I repeat, I didn't continue the game; I left immediately.

Added 4 minutes later
ariputra


We agreed that tomorrow, the organizers will decide. Those are your words, not mine. If you say something, stand by your words.

Damn, and you broke the rules.
1. A tournament participant must:
If there is suspicion of any form of unfair play.

Well, I've presented the case about your violation; let them decide who moves on. This isn't a suspicion; it's an obvious violation, and those are two different things
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Oelm
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Dimast, if, as you say, you don't need such a victory, then you should either continue the game from a save, or replay it, or ari should acknowledge his defeat. If this kind of victory suits you, then, unfortunately, you will end up among those who are not highly regarded by either forum users or Heroes players in general.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
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ariputra
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Dimast

and also, you made excuses about thinking, when you had several reviews, and my moves were visible starting from when I left the spawn point, but you didn't watch them,

there was only one review, I'm telling you again, I saw how Valeska was standing next to the medusa warehouse at 124, and at 125 she was no longer there, 3 carriers appeared next to the genies

Dimast

why did you watch a movie while preparing to rush and didn't watch at all what Valya was doing and who she was hitting, where she was running? If you have nothing to write, it's better to stay silent and admit defeat.

first, I wasn't going to rush, I had a choice to go to the center or to the green teleport, second, I always watch a movie while playing or play after I decided to go to the center, Valeska was no longer visible, what is there to watch? If she comes out of the darkness, I'll see her anyway, and if she stays, what's the point of watching?
Dimast

instead of posting some incomprehensible pictures where you didn't get an answer in ICQ and making up excuses,
you're right, the status isn't displayed in the history, ask him, but even if there's no one online now, does that negate the need to discuss the controversial situation with the organizer?

Dimast

there are rules, there is a violation

"The referee's decision is based on the seasonal rules, elementary logic, and game ethics."
Dimast

Here, it's not a suspicion, it's an obvious violation, these are two different things.

the violation is obvious, but I don't agree that you should demand and give a tech loss for it - in my opinion, this is a controversial situation, IMHO, plus we agreed that the organizer would resolve this situation.

dimassstttt (02:05:24 28/02/2012)
Scorpion will come, let him decide.

instead, you posted all this nonsense on the forum.

they'll decide that you won, no problem, good luck in the next games
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