Inferno faction discussion. — Inferno

Registered: 4/18/2007

Posts: 5,612

#685 1/11/2012 2:35 PM UTC

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Whose ability is the real trump card? Just a small help during the battle.

Haven and Necropolis have strong abilities.

In Heroes 6, units became tougher, and battles took longer, so reinforcements are quite useful, providing extra damage or at least reducing incoming damage.

That's minor. Sanctuary has a better ability. Even the reinforcements look better here.

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Zybr

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#686 1/12/2012 5:20 AM UTC

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Zybr

Well, that's a minor thing. Sanctuary even has a better ability. Here, even the reinforcement looks better.

Okay, I'll play as Inferno, maybe I'll come up with something smart about it. I generally don't use Sanctuary's ability, only when the necessary spells are on cooldown, and there's a lot of meat in the battle; there's no point in a direct attack.

Added after 3 hours 55 minutes
I played. Inferno are cheaters; tears/blood are pumped up to 1000 in 1 battle... it's tedious, though.

Added after 6 hours 47 minutes

Zybr

Well, that's a minor thing. Sanctuary even has a better ability. Here, even the reinforcement looks better.

I found another use. With the Inferno's ability, you can perfectly block passages (even those that haven't opened yet, and immediately), and unopened gates also distract neutrals.

Registered: 4/18/2007

Posts: 5,612

#687 1/12/2012 6:18 AM UTC

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Found another use for it. With the Inferno ability, you can effectively block passages (even unopened gates, and immediately), and unopened gates also distract and neutralize neutrals.

Yes, this is a useful trick, by the way. I've used it a couple of times, but forgot to mention it.

Okay, I'll play as Inferno, maybe I'll come up with something smart about it. I haven't really used the Sanctuary ability, only when the necessary spells were on cooldown, and there was a lot of meat in the battle; there's no point in direct attack.

It has a decent health bonus, available at level 2. The rest is minor.

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Zybr

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#688 1/12/2012 6:42 AM UTC

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Zybr

She has a decent health bonus, available at level 2. Everything else is minor.

The health bonus has a significant drawback – it makes the medusa healer resurrect fewer units.

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#689 1/12/2012 8:23 AM UTC

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I don't know, I haven't looked into this issue yet. You can also play as different types of characters.

In the Inferno campaign, I chose the most difficult path - Warrior + Blood (no healing, mana for draining is barely enough, troops that want to join need to be killed instead of recruited). Naturally, the difficulty level is the highest. And naturally, without upgraded dynasty weapons (I'm leveling up the Inferno sword that's given in the first mission). I also didn't use a cheat to level up Blood/Tears to 1000 per battle.

But it's still quite playable, not easy, but very interesting.

Registered: 7/18/2008

Posts: 3,427

#690 1/13/2012 4:34 AM UTC

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I don't think that if you choose to develop a specific path, you should completely abandon the use of skills from another path, and especially not the recruitment of units. Developing two paths goes hand in hand. You can earn the most reputation by killing/releasing units (even more in multiplayer), and for special scripted moments in the campaign.

So, the biggest problem in your playthrough is refusing to recruit joining units :). I don't understand that.

Could you provide more details about the cheat "up to 1000 per battle"?

Карты для Heroes of Might and Magic V
Цикл "Закадычные враги": "Особенное гостеприимство, "Супероружие", "Меж молотом и наковальней"
"Падение Шантири"

Кампания для "Кодекса Войны"
"Выбор Сагиттеля"

In reply to Победитель

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#691 1/13/2012 5:18 AM UTC

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Winner

I don't think that if you choose to develop a certain path, you should completely abandon the use of skills from another path, and especially not from joining units. Developing two paths goes in parallel. You can get the most reputation by killing/releasing units (even more in Multiplayer), and for special scripted moments in the Campaign.

So, the biggest problem in your playthrough is refusing to join units :). I don't understand that.

That's what I'm talking about. You can join everything that can be joined (and the scripts are the same there - kill the dog handler or complete his quest and join the dogs, kill the horde of madmen or come to them in a madman's mask and join), and get 150-180 tears, or you can kill them and get the same amount of blood (a little less). And get 1 level of blood at the beginning/middle of the first mission (25% bonus to critical hits), and not at the end of the second, as I had in my Necropolis campaign.

In general, the path of blood seems more difficult to me, precisely because of the need to kill joining and fleeing units. And for Inferno, it is twice as difficult, due to the reduced number of healing spells. The balance needs to be adjusted. In single-player, of course, it will work (it's like hardcore), but in Multiplayer, few people will risk it.

Now I often have to reload - the price of mistakes in battle is high, and before the battle, I forget to separate the single madmen (damn, it was so convenient in the fifth game).

Although, even in the fifth game, players who played Inferno in the average Multiplayer matches were considered masochists. I know from experience - indeed, the greatest pleasure was tearing apart Necromancers and Elves with Inferno :)))))) True, I also lost quite often.

P.S.: I read the manual - the developers are incredibly disappointing... bonuses only come from leveling up blood/tears (that is, only 2 characteristic increases - when you take 1 level of the path for 250 points and 2 levels of the path for 1000).
Too bad.

Can you tell me more about the cheat "up to 1000 in 1 battle"?

2 stacks of Lilim in the army, at the end of the battle, leave a small enemy unit alive, charm it with 2 stacks in a row (cooldown 3 turns) and use the hero's battle cries (they don't consume mana) to increase blood/tears to the desired level.

Here are some options for reducing this: make the Lilim ability 1 time per battle instead of 1 time every three turns, or introduce an alternative "mana" for battle cries. Or limit the number of cries, for example, 10-20 per battle.

Registered: 5/24/2009

Posts: 1,823

#692 1/14/2012 4:24 PM UTC

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With such a cheat, you won't be able to play against a real opponent; there's a time limit, and besides, nerves aren't made of steel.

Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#693 1/16/2012 7:13 AM UTC

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Yes, it's impossible to play Inferno without the Tears skills. The Necropolis faction has completely messed things up. Draining doesn't work, and it's all very sad. In the campaign, you can, of course, overwhelm enemies with numbers, and the balance allows you to play and even win with some losses, but in Multiplayer, you can't go anywhere without reinforcements and counterattacks :(

It's a pity, they should have tied reinforcements to Blood, not Tears. After all, it's not healing, but overwhelming the enemy with numbers. Otherwise, the logic of tying Draining to Blood is unclear...

Regarding tactics.

The Sadists and Fiends are just beasts. Especially the Fiends. Someone wrote (I'm too lazy to look) that it's not necessary to upgrade to Fiends, because they don't deal full area damage, but only 25% of their total damage. That's not true. It's additional damage. In total, 125% to everyone without retaliation. Plus their bonus, plus under Draining... As a result, most battles are won only with them. Reinforcement - run to the enemy - the enemy surrounds and takes a beating. After level 15, you can probably do without reinforcement :)

The Dogs are also good, but there are few of them, and they die quickly. I only take them with me for particularly difficult battles. In the fifth game, they were a lifesaver due to their retaliation (almost like ranged attacks), but here, retaliation is sorely lacking.

Is the Frenzy skill bugged? According to the description, it should last for 1 turn, but it accumulates. Well, of course, it's fun to beat up some weak stack in a long battle... plus 2 damage to yourself, minus 2 damage to the enemy per turn :) I wonder if they will fix it? It doesn't seem to create a significant imbalance even with this implementation.

Liliths with magic damage, I think, ruin the Multiplayer experience for the Inferno Warrior :( Dog retaliation would solve the problem...

I haven't tried Destroyers, Broodmothers, and Demons yet.

In reply to Supric

Registered: 12/21/2007

Posts: 16

#694 1/16/2012 11:06 AM UTC

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In a multiplayer game, on a small map, at the highest difficulty level, demons consistently lose to Necropolis, Haven, and Sanctuary, which tank and tear through all encountered neutral creatures indiscriminately. The lack of healing spells makes a difference. It is almost impossible to capture monsters of level 4-7 in the first week without any losses.

Gentlemen, I would like to know if there are ways to compensate for the disadvantage in the first week? Or are there any combat tactics for the first week?

Registered: 3/11/2007

Posts: 24,200

#696 1/16/2012 11:26 AM UTC

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The mage, not the fighter, provides the attack bonus. Both archers attack with magic.

Registered: 12/21/2007

Posts: 16

#697 1/16/2012 11:30 AM UTC

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Chingis

It's a small map... You should just limit it to duels:)

These are two completely different things. I don't see the connection.

Registered: 4/18/2007

Posts: 5,612

#698 1/16/2012 11:37 AM UTC

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Lilim with magic damage, it seems, ruins the multiplayer experience for Inferno Warriors :(

Demons and their passive ability also seem to be based on magic. They also deal fire damage...
It's strange how they designed the demons.
It feels like they just used the "leftovers" for them. Humans get morality and light, Necromancers get darkness and corpses, Nagas get water and attacks on different targets, Orcs get simple attacks, I forgot. And for demons, they just added fire and luck)))

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

Registered: 4/18/2007

Posts: 5,612

#700 1/16/2012 11:57 AM UTC

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I think I understand the demon passive ability, which deals fire damage, but I'm still not entirely sure. Does it mean that whatever demons do, their "fire" passively increases their damage?

When any demon unit attacks, there is a chance (in percentage) to deal additional fire damage (added to the base damage).

From your answer, it seemed that Lilim is good, but from Supric's answer, it seemed that she is bad.

The thing is that Lilim will not enhance a fighter very well, because she has a higher increase in physical defense and attack.

Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!

In reply to Looker FuNNy aRt

Registered: 10/26/2011

Posts: 314

#701 1/16/2012 12:22 PM UTC

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Looker FuNNy aRt

In a multiplayer game, on a small map, at the highest difficulty level, Demons consistently lose to Necromancers, Humans, and the Fortress, who tank and tear through all encountered neutral creatures indiscriminately. The lack of healing spells is a factor. It's practically impossible to acquire monsters of level 4-7 in the first week without any losses.

Gentlemen, I'm curious to know if there are ways to compensate for the disadvantage in the first week? Or are there any combat tactics for the first week?

I played the first level of the campaign without healing spells.
There are tactics. I'll write them for the Warrior. For the Mage, everything is clear; you can go into Earth and Darkness.
1) Reinforcements. This is obvious.
1a) Matrons have auto-reinforcements :)
2) Drain. This is also clear, I think. But the Warrior has little mana, so use it in emergencies.
3) Stacks of 1 unit to cover the main stacks and absorb retaliatory attacks.

Oh! And now I'm thinking, if this single unit is a Lilim, then during a retaliatory attack, enemies take reflected damage. How much is reflected? It doesn't seem to depend on the stack size, right? Or the classic - single units as berserkers. By absorbing the retaliatory attack, they reduce the damage of enemy stacks. The effect seems to last until the end of the battle.

4) The Lilim's charm ability.

Save the dogs, just in case. And the Sadists. They are the main attackers. In general, it's all like in the fifth game; the price of any mistake in battle is incredibly high for Inferno, and there will be no chance to correct it.

Added 4 minutes ago

Zybr

It's strange how they made the Demons, if you look closely.
It feels like they just used the "leftovers" for them. Humans - morale and light, Necromancers - darkness and corpses, Nagas - water and attacks on different targets, Orcs - just attacks, I forgot. But for Demons, they crammed in fire and luck)))

It seems to me that at level 15, the Inferno Fighter becomes very dangerous, especially with the right combat perks. However, the level of danger is directly proportional to the amount of "meat" preserved during previous development :)

Added 2 minutes ago

Zybr