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Could you explain why you think so? My posts, at least, provide some kind of explanation. It would be good if you could provide some data as well.
Your posts contain a minimum of constructive information and a lot of fluff (I think many people have noticed this on the forum). The art of a good speaker is to convey the necessary information to the listener using a minimum of text.
Now about the timer. Let's compare it to chess. In chess, there are time controls: 2 hours for the whole game or 1.5 hours + 30 seconds per move. There is even blitz: 3 minutes, 5 minutes, or 3 minutes + 2 seconds per move. This does not change the gameplay. The same is true for Heroes. There is a 1-minute control, a 6-minute control, and a 4000+400 control. The heroes, like chess, do not become different. That's my logic. A change in gameplay is slow on level 2 or 30% resistance on expert.
Could you explain why you think so? My arguments at least have some basis. It would be good if you could provide some evidence as well.
I'll venture to suggest that you've never played with a chess timer. Therefore, I'll risk suggesting that you play a couple of games in Warlords (with a chess timer); maybe you'll find that there's no discomfort at all (just don't defend the rights of all SOD fans; speak only for yourself). I'm judging based on my own experience, or rather, how I tried playing in Townes, I frowned because of the unfamiliarity, but nevertheless, I came to appreciate this version more after playing it. In general, if you are strongly against something, you can at least try it out of politeness, it's not like smoking.
I'm not defending either version; I play both. The only drawback is that when you get used to one, it's a little difficult to switch.
And I can't understand the opponents of the chess timer. What's the problem? Has it personally ended for you, dear friends, or what? Why do you dislike it so much? If you have enough time, does it really matter what timer you use?
Message from Dirty_Player: Your posts contain a minimum of constructive content and a lot of fluff.
That's why the ability to extract the main points from what is said is not a trait of everyone...
Message from Dirty_Player: The art of a good speaker is to convey the necessary information to the listener using a minimum of text.
You are mistaken. The art of a speaker is to win people over. And the art of conveying information to those who are won over is the art of experienced and wise speakers.
Message from Dirty_Player: Now about the timer. Let's compare it to chess. In chess, there are time controls: 2 hours for the entire game or 1.5 hours + 30 seconds per move. Even blitz exists: 3 minutes, 5 minutes, or 3 minutes + 2 seconds per move. This does not change the gameplay in any way. The same is true in Heroes. There is a 1-minute control, a 6-minute control, and a 4000+400 control. The heroes, like chess, do not become different.
I agree, but there is a small BUT, and it's quite significant, and it stands out in at least two ways, and they overshadow your statements: 1. Map + Battle (here it's a game of skill, not the speed of Warcraft) 2. The overall picture of the map - (minus) the one you see. In chess, there is the possibility to observe the entire battlefield COMPLETELY. I hope you will forget about chess, unless you play with an open map.
Message from Dirty_Player: Changing the gameplay is a slow on level 2 or 30% resistance on expert.
At least I agree with this.
Message from Psyche_7: I'll take a risk and suggest that you've never played with a chess timer.
Risky guy. Don't drink champagne after reading the message.
Message from Psyche_7: Therefore, I'll risk again and advise you to play a couple of games in Warlords (with a chess timer), maybe it turns out that you won't experience any discomfort.
Thank you for the advice, but I already understand that discussing something without having at least a minimum of experience is stupid. Don't risk jumping off a Tarzan swing in the hope that the safety harness will hold :) You didn't guess even :)
Message from KINB: P.S. R55Max, thanks for defending SOD, but still try playing with a timer, and then make such categorical statements.
I've played with different options. There was one time crunch with 4000+400 and one close call in a delayed game. The other 3 out of 5 were not even close. With 4500+500 it's much easier, but I don't support this system in any case. And it's not about liking or disliking. Read above, extract the main points :)
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
To be fair, I want to note that 4000+500 has always been enough for me, and in game 131, I usually have between 4000 and 6000 time units remaining.
Dirty is right that there are turning points in a game where simply having 6 minutes to consider everything is not enough, and these very turns are what determine the outcome of the game. This is much more important than simply killing a hundred golems. And of course, it's nice to spend time on a turn, time saved by making faster moves earlier.
Although, of course, this is not quite SoD anymore. But everything is moving towards the mod changing, and there will be no support for the original SoD with an additional module. And the proposal itself is rational. It's no more criminal than fast roads.
It's just that with this option, you'll have to play in tournaments the most.
Added after 43 minutes Ah, yes. There are players, I won't point fingers, with whom I would never play a pure SoD game. Because 6 minutes turns out to be both a lot and a little! It's a paradox. If I'm playing, I sometimes don't have enough time to move around the map, but if the opponent is playing, every turn they change the world like Superman, instead of just making a move. They just drag out the turns. And when you look at the save after the game, what was actually done? Well, basically nothing! Almost nothing was done to justify dragging it out like that. And of course, it's really funny when they spend half a day making a move, and then lose. I don't know what they were doing, maybe they were going to the store for a beer or to the bathhouse, or who knows what else...
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/ За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
Can you vote on which option is better?
1. Chess with a timer in battles
2. Chess without a timer in battles (combined with a SOD timer)
3. SOD timer only.
If it's really necessary, I'm voting for option 2.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
Maybe we could vote on which option is better? 1. Chess with a timer in battles 2. Chess without a timer in battles (combined with a SOD timer) 3. Pure SOD timer.
If it's really necessary, I'll vote for option 2.
Maybe, but why? If it's really that important, it would be nice to add an option like "doesn't matter" or allow voting for multiple options.
Maybe, but why?? If you really want to, it would be nice to add an option like "doesn't matter" or allow voting for multiple options.
If it's "doesn't matter," it's easier to ignore. But what's the point of having polls in the first place? To determine the majority among those who voted.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
I apologize for the slight off-topic comment, as this issue has already been discussed. Just the other day, during a tournament game, I encountered a situation similar to what Dipty Player described. During one of the most crucial turns, I didn't have enough time to move my main hero, which could have had negative consequences. This happened because I was rereading the rules at that moment, and I probably spent a third of my turn doing so. If there were chess clocks, something like this wouldn't have happened, of course. So, I'm all for implementing them. Moreover, I've often seen top players in WODs not pass their turn after it ends, but simply sit and think until their time runs out. I don't blame these players for anything; they're using the opportunity the game provides, but it's quite annoying, and I wouldn't want such opportunities to exist.
I apologize for the slight digression, as this issue has already been discussed. Just the day before yesterday, in a tournament game, I encountered a situation that Dipty Player wrote about. During one of the most crucial turns, I didn't have enough time to move my main hero, which could have had bad consequences. This happened because I was rereading the rules at that moment, and I probably spent a third of my turn doing so. If there were chess clocks, something like this wouldn't have happened, of course. So, I'm all for implementing them. Besides, I've seen many times how top players in WoD, after finishing their turn, don't pass it on but just sit and think until their time runs out. I'm not blaming these players for anything; they're using the opportunity the game provides, but it's quite annoying, and I wouldn't want such opportunities to exist.
You yourself answered your question about why this unpleasant situation happened to you. If you read books during your turn, no amount of time will be enough. Study and know the rules before the game; I've caught myself doing the same thing
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
You yourself answered your question, explaining why this unpleasant situation occurred for you :) If we read books while making our moves, no amount of time will be enough. Learn and know the rules before the game; I myself have fallen into this trap.
I perfectly understand why this happened. However, this does not change the fact that the SOD timer makes all moves equal in terms of the time allocated to them, even though they differ in value. I brought up this particular instance because it made me look at the benefits of a chess timer in a different light.
I perfectly understand why this happened. However, this doesn't change the fact that the SOD timer makes all turns equal in terms of the time allocated to them, even though they differ in value. I brought up this specific instance because it made me look at the benefits of a chess timer differently.
You don't see the essence of the argument between the SOD timer and the chess VT timer. If you respond to the post, I would like to hear what the essence of the argument is for you. Do some digging. It's not right to blame something for a situation that is possible in a situation that is being justified. Also, you could (theoretically) be in time trouble in chess and not move, not just with your main hero, but with all your other heroes, and the fact that this situation happened to you is not proof that the timer is bad.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
You don't see the essence of the argument between the SOD timer and the chess-style timer. If you reply to the post, I would like to hear what the essence of the argument is for you. Do some digging. It's not right to blame something for a situation that is possible in a situation that is being justified. Also, you could (theoretically) be in a time crunch in chess and not move, not just your main hero, but all the others. The fact that you had such a situation doesn't mean that the timer is bad.
What is the essence of the argument? I see that a rather reasonable option for a chess-style timer is being rejected, which, as I understand it, many players would like to see. Personally, I would be interested in playing with chess clocks; I think it would be quite convenient for me. No one is saying that the SOD timer is bad; why not have an alternative?
What is the essence of the dispute? I see that a fairly reasonable chess timer option is being rejected, which, as I understand it, many players would like to see. Personally, I would be interested in playing with a chess clock; I think it would be quite convenient for me. Nobody is saying that the SoD timer is bad, but why not have an alternative?
Forgive me, of course, but did you read the posts with your eyes closed? In the form in which the chess timer is currently presented (in the BT example), it is unacceptable for the game as a whole, because strategic battles are punished by time, although in essence they should be encouraged. There should be no countdown in battles, so it is easier to set any time in the SoD timer. If there were a chess timer with time stopping in battles — in my opinion, that would be the most optimal and liberal solution for everyone.
МУДРЫЙ - не обязательно старый, ОПЫТНЫЙ - не обязательно мудрый... обладатель и того и другого всегда должен помнить слова НАПОЛЕОНА БОНАПАРТА: Война состоит из непредусмотренных событий; В каждом большом деле всегда приходится какую-то часть оставить на долю :smile33: СЛУЧАЯ...
Dirty_Player
