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Posts from Dwarf vs. Wingayel (Lands of Outcasts)

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Саня Изи
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Hmm, it's a debatable topic. But in my opinion, with the right build, Inga can easily defeat Wing with that setup. Moreover, the elf has a luck stat of 1. Inga, in my opinion, is just as overpowered for dwarves as Wingael is for elves. So, I think it all comes down to the skill of the person playing as the dwarves. True, Snaiper133 didn't say anything about artifacts and cursed items, which is significant. But the dwarves' upgrade isn't what it should be. Snaiper133, please upload the replay as a file on the forum, because all the replays you upload are on an unsafe site. Maybe I just haven't seen your level of gameplay yet. P.S. I'll upload a replay on this topic. It wasn't me playing, but the replay is very interesting, and everyone should watch it; the dwarf had to work hard. But in the end, the dwarves won due to their high defense (this is what impressed me the most). This replay shows how effective chaos can be against a dwarf.
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Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
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In reply to Саня Изи
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Soljie
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Lordesat
This replay shows how effective chaos can be against a dwarf.
I didn't quite understand why Ibba had a tactic, but Wing didn't :confused:. Ideally, the tactic should have been canceled for both (apparently, it wasn't possible to get rid of native perks with a mentor). I also noticed that the dwarf had a set of death, many artifacts for initiative, attack, and defense, and a good number of runes, plus a one-and-a-half-fold advantage in troops. Against such a force, multiplied by its toughness, it seemed clear that chaos wouldn't win.
Там бугага - там Ктулху бродит, Креведко на ветвях висит...
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Саня Изи
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Actually, you can get rid of any perks with the help of a mentor. As for the one and a half times the number of dwarves – it’s not surprising, since their growth rate is much higher. In any case, the development conditions for both players were the same, so if the elf lost to the neutrals somewhere, it was his own mistake. Chaos performed quite well, especially against dragons.
Смысла нет, но вы держитесь там. Удачи, здоровья, хорошего настроения!
И пока в кармане пачка милкиуэйев - значит все не так уж плохо на сегодняшний день
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Ereb
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And what about the runes of elemental immunity? They would significantly reduce Chaos's chances!

За кланы! За кровь!
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$an4es
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I am also sometimes amazed by the resilience of the Dwarves. I will share my replay. I must say right away: my friend and I are average players, so please don't criticize us too harshly for any mistakes. The battle is similar to the Mish-gana game. Map: 3 rivers. We played for about 3 months (he was playing as Ossira). If there had been a Winged creature, I don't know if it would have given him a much greater advantage, as the Dwarves were holding their ground very confidently. Moreover, the losses were quite modest.
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In reply to Mish-gan
ekstrakill
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my opinion: hero: Ingvar skills: - Endurance - Fight to the Last (essential for the resurrection rune) - Rune Harmony - Dwarven Luck - Soldier's Luck - Pyrokinesis Armageddon is perfect for dwarves, especially since most elf units have low HP, and dwarves have many units resistant to fire. Their numbers can also increase if you have the "Rune of Elemental Immunity." Use this rune on units vulnerable to fire and then unleash Armageddon! Education would also be helpful; you can take it instead of Leadership, depending on your preference. I think this tactic would be ideal:smile20:
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Ment
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Battle unicorns + magic resistance, which is easily obtained even at low levels + an element of randomness = where is the guarantee that Armageddon will deal more damage to elves than to its own dwarves?
 

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antonag07
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Ment
Battle unicorns + magic resistance, which is easily obtained even at low levels + an element of randomness = where is the guarantee that Armageddon will deal more damage to elves than to its own dwarves?
Yes, the person probably didn't read the topic title carefully - his idea is good overall, the only thing is that you won't have to cast "Armageddon" against Wingard anymore, because the elven troops can quite possibly attack twice (if not three times):)
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Великий Кукурузо
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With retribution, a speed aura, elven luck, and a masterwork pendant, Wing himself will barely have time to cast anything more than once. Although with such a build :smile08: it's problematic to use any magic.

Added after 4 minutes
And in general, why does Wing need magic if he rarely manages to personally participate in battles.
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SuperMel
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I agree with the last post; wings easily defeat any dwarf – the dwarf doesn't even have time to cast his runes.

But the most interesting thing is not even that: there is a tactic against a dwarf who vastly outnumbers an elf in terms of defense. And the most interesting thing is that we don't even take defense into account. We simply level up Retribution, Aura of Swiftness, Dark Magic (enchanting arrows with Blindness, for example), and Elven Luck (artifacts - a set of Lionheart). And the dwarf is ready. You can even replace Luck with Defense if the Luck artifacts provide enough benefit. Nothing saves from "Sworn Enemy."

The dwarf's only chance against an elf is to level up Spell Power.
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Mish-gan
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SuperMel
I agree with the last post; Wings easily defeat any Dwarf – the Dwarf doesn't even have time to cast his runes.

But the most interesting thing is not that: there is a tactic against a Dwarf who vastly outnumbers the Elf in terms of defense. And the most interesting thing is that we don't even take defense. We simply level up Retribution, Speed Aura, Dark Magic (for example, enchanting arrows with Blindness), and Elven Luck (artifacts – a set of Lionheart's Valor) – and the Dwarf is done for. You can even swap Luck for Defense if the Luck artifacts provide enough. Nothing saves from "Arch-Enemy."

The only chance the Dwarf has against the Elf is to level up Combat Expertise.

Everything you described now has been tried and tested a hundred times, and ultimately has a minimal chance of success against a clumsy Dwarf. There are many other builds and tactics that are much more effective than what you describe, and still, there is no chance of winning against a decent Dwarf who visits the tavern at least once during the game. I repeat, in the late game, Elves have no chance against Dwarfs! Only a rush strategy with Elves will work!
I understand that you will now dispute my arguments, but I will say right away – all this has already been gone through and forgotten (search the forum). The only ones who can stand up to Dwarfs in the late game are Necromancers and the Academy; these are proven facts!
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Великий Кукурузо
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Mish-gan
Everything you've described has been tried and tested countless times, and ultimately has a minimal chance of success against a skilled Dwarf player. There are many other builds and tactics that are much more effective than what you're describing, and still, there's no chance of winning against a decent Dwarf who at least occasionally visits the tavern. I repeat, in the late game, Stronghold has no chance against a Dwarf! Only a rush strategy with Stronghold might work!
I understand that you're going to dispute my arguments now, but I'll say it again - all of this has already been discussed and forgotten (search the forum). The only factions that can stand up to Dwarves in the late game are Necropolis and Academy; these are proven facts!
There isn't a single replay on the forum where a Dwarf defeats a decent Winged Beast player, and these theoretical assumptions (build this, build that) would be good to support with arguments.
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snaiper133
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Mish-gan
still, there's no chance of winning against a decent Dwarf who visits the tavern at least once during the game. I'll repeat myself: in the late game, Sylvan has no chance against a Dwarf! Only a rush strategy will work for Sylvan!
The only ones who can stand up to Dwarves in the late game are Necromancers and Academy; these are proven facts!

But that's a bit too categorical about the late game, especially if you consider Wing. A lot will depend on the upgrades, artifacts, luck, but saying that Wing has no chance against Dwarves in the late game is an exaggeration. :) It's not for nothing that many people ban Wing in online games, and you say there's no chance. I think that Humans, thanks to training, and Orcs, thanks to their rage, also have excellent chances against Dwarves in the late game.
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wolfkill3r
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Hello. My friend and I started a very large map on one computer, I'm playing as Fortress, and he's playing as Haven (not Winged). We will start military actions only after reaching level 3. He will take the Sanctuary. How should I develop my hero? The levels will be around 30. I think it's worth developing two heroes. For the archer, it's clear: Chaos, Sorcery, Luck, Defense, and maybe Logistics? But what about the main hero? Should he also focus on Sanctuary skills? I hope for constructive and comprehensive advice. :) Thank you in advance!
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PINOCHET911
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Take Runic Harmony, empathy (a scholar and keeper of secrets in education + gathering troops in combat spirit), so you can cast spells faster than the elf (meaning Helmar as the main hero). Take Quick Mind through education (solving secrets) and scouting in logistics, and defense with readiness through the Hirdu defensive skill and resilience. In principle, you can reach level 27 in 3 months if you don't miss a single mob. I won't leave you here either =)

Added 3 minutes later
This is if you're playing as Haven, of course! And in Dungeon, use pyrokinesis and overwhelm them with Armageddon.
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