Posts from Battles with neutral creatures.

Perhaps this topic is not relevant, but since I couldn't find anything similar on the forum, I decided to bring it up. This kind of problem can arise at any point in the game, but it is most relevant at the beginning – when the hero is not yet leveled up and there is neither a strong army nor any artifacts. Unlike Heroes 3, where the strength of neutral creatures increases by a factor of 2 from difficulty level 1 to 3 and then does not change, in Heroes 4, the strength of neutral creatures increases by a factor of 4.5 from difficulty level 1 to 5. And if, for example, a level 1 hero can easily defeat 2 golems, then 9 golems can also easily defeat that hero.
I will not consider the situation where, with the right tactics, you can defeat a stronger army, sometimes even without losses. I want to consider a nearly hopeless situation, where the neutral creatures are much stronger than you, when no Hitran helps, and you are defeated before you can kill even one monster (or several small monsters from a pack are defeated, but the next day they are replenished due to growth – just in time for the hero's resurrection). In a normal situation, I wouldn't touch these monsters, but now a vicious circle arises – to defeat the neutral creatures, you need to level up the hero, and to level up the hero, you need to defeat the neutral creatures. Of course, it may matter who and against whom you are playing – this may give some advantages, but it will not solve the problem globally.
A similar situation is when losing a hero is considered a defeat, and there is neither a starting town nor a tavern, so Hitran is impossible.
I would like to hear how the pros solve these kinds of problems (defeat large armies with small forces). I agree that the AI can be stupid, but not in this situation. :smile14: :smile15:

1) Build an army
2) Level up several heroes

Sounds about right. That's how I've been doing it. It just takes a lot of time – it felt faster in Heroes 3. The only thing that helps is that the AI is dumber – after a month of tough battles and losses, when you finally reach an open area, the AI hasn't cleared its entire territory yet, whereas in the third game, it would have already taken half of yours.
By the way, a related question arose – what do you think is better: to quickly defeat neutral forces with significant losses, gaining experience, resources, and artifacts, but remaining with a small army before a strong enemy, or to build a larger army, defeat neutral forces with minimal losses, but lose resources, artifacts, experience altars, and time? The enemy's army will also grow during this time.

It's actually quite simple...
You take your starting army, use it to capture resources, and then build level 4 creatures. By this point, you can even sacrifice your entire army, because from then on, you'll only be playing with heroes and level 4 creatures.

Sometimes, the standard tactic of using level 4 creatures and heroes doesn't work, perhaps because you don't have the opportunity to build level 4 creatures quickly enough. In that case, either level up a fighter and use them, supported by a mage, to clear everything, or create a strike force from weaker units and protect it and your heroes in battles, sacrificing the rest of your army and support units as needed.

Essentially, that's how you have to play, only I try not to change the troop type (due to morale and gold). But you got the point – you can't do anything without a fighter; a tactician or mage won't solve the problem in such situations. Sometimes you even have to deploy an attack stack, if, of course, you get a gold mine or a passage in return. It's bad when you can't afford to lose a hero, but you don't have enough gold yet... Or if there are several different monsters – one defeats you, you resurrect, the second attacks, and you can't resurrect anymore – no chance.
Of course, if the AI tells a scout that it will be defeated, it means that with skill, you can, on the contrary, crush the enemy, and even with minimal losses – you assess the enemy's monsters and heroes, choose a tactic, and destroy them. But if there's no answer to a problem, no trick will help until you find your own solution.
I once read about tasks on another site, about defeating much stronger armies, even without losses, and I tried to solve one of them several times, but I stopped trying. They were right that a lot depends not on skill, but on luck in the game – what kind of battlefield you get, how often morale appears, what kind of damage you get, etc.

leveling up several heroes doesn't take much time; you just need to play on online maps where either a tavern is located close to you or by the end of the first week, you already have two castles, and a tavern is located near the second one. Then you'll have level 3 heroes, and after a short time, you'll have level 4. In general, on almost all online maps, it's possible to build level 4 heroes by the beginning of the second week of the game. Then you'll have at least 3 heroes, and leveling up will become easy.

I understand – online maps are more balanced. In RPGs, especially those made by amateurs, there are sometimes significant flaws. Or the game is just a product of the creator's wild imagination. In the third game, for example, when you don't have a starting hero, on the 3rd day, the enemy is already near the city, but you can only accumulate enough money for a hero on the 5th day... I don't know yet what other flaws are found in the fourth game. In the third game, speed is often more important than strength. And here, sometimes there is a significant slowdown in development. By the way, in terms of army building, the Necropolis is the fastest and cheapest, but I only use them for variety, and in general, I prefer to pay attention to all factions.
I think the game also depends on your mood – sometimes it goes easily and without problems, and sometimes it doesn't.

Added 3 hours 15 minutes ago
By the way, here's a recent example (I started the game before writing this post, but I put it aside – I got tired of carrying the tomb to Sanctuary). A Marksman of level 14, all three combat skills maxed out, and the only valuable artifact is the Soul Eater. In the walkthrough, there are 61 Crusaders, 39 Archers, and 52 Squires. I tried 2 or 3 times – they killed me, and even the Potion of Healing didn't help (I had only one). Apparently, the Crusaders' morale was dropping – half of them were still left. And carrying the tomb is a long way, even on a small map, it takes about 3 days (the hero is broke). I changed my tactics – I drank a Potion of Strength and, for the last time, didn't shoot, but went into melee combat – I killed everyone, and I didn't even need the Potion of Healing. And in general, I completed the entire small map without an army (I sometimes took a Fairy), although in the captured cities, I also built an army of all levels – it was quite impressive. I spent 6 weeks, and in the first 2 weeks, I only did one thing: carried the broke hero's tomb to Sanctuary (although he had a starting level of 5, but no defense could save him from 14 Crusaders or 32 Monks).
And in general, guys, thanks for the moral support. By the way, I was a little surprised – for this playthrough, the AI gave me 994 points (Mega Dragon). For what? – the map is clearly weaker (at least 100 points less) and there are many easy ways to level up.

It's actually quite simple...
Either level up a combat unit and clear everything with it, supported by a mage, or create a strike force from weaker units, protect it and your heroes in battles, and sacrifice the rest of the troops and support units if necessary.

Exactly. A well-chosen strike force, supported by 4-5 heroes, can clear the map without any problems.

For example, I'm currently playing the Order campaign from the Whirlwinds expansion.
Which units should I use as a strike force at the beginning, when the hero is weak and the fourth level in the castle is blocked? I use Hobbits, protected by Golems and Dwarves:D They accumulate quickly, and clearing out neutral creatures, especially level 4 ones, is surprisingly powerful with Accuracy and Blessing). Yes, they are slow on the map, but there's no other choice; it's better to be slow but steady than not at all. Even when I reach Djinns/Nagas, I still hesitate to part with a couple of hundred Hobbits).

In essence, that's almost what you have to do, but I try not to change the unit type (because of morale and money). But you got the point - without a combat unit, it won't work; tacticians and mages can't solve the problem in such situations.

Here's another situation - you can't buy combat units anywhere for the Order faction until you find an external tavern or conquer another city.

Of course, if the AI tells a scout that he will be defeated, it means that with skill, you can, on the contrary, crush the enemy, and even with small losses - you assess the enemy's creatures and heroes, choose a tactic, and crush them. But if there is no answer to a problem, no trick will help until you find your own solution.
I once read on another site about tasks, about defeating much stronger armies, even without losses, I tried to solve one of them several times and decided not to solve them anymore.

And I, on the contrary, love to attack neutral creatures, regardless of the scout's warnings that I will be defeated). After all, in a non-online game, there is always a save-load option.

Sometimes, I have to replay a battle 10-20 times to defeat an army that is an order of magnitude stronger, and even without losing particularly valuable heroes or units. Although, more often than not, it takes only 1-2 attempts; 10 attempts would mean that the forces are simply unrealistically unequal.

Just recently, while playing the Barbarians campaign, in one of the missions, your hero is tracked down by a fierce squad of Grand Mages with several spells (Priest, Druid, and Order) tactics, a tank, a couple of dozen catapults, and several dozen crossbowmen. So, I ran into a situation where they caught me in a city - either I run away and give up the city, and they release a bunch of previously killed strong heroes from the city's prison, or I somehow come up with a way to kill them. And I only have a level 20 tank, an underdeveloped Priest, and a runner. And the army is just a bunch of weak units. It seemed impossible - you can't even survive on bottles - the Order Grand Mage will take and steal everything he can. So, I loaded the game 20 times to solve this puzzle:D

Such difficult battles greatly improve your skill in playing Heroes of Might and Magic 4, so even if it seems that there is no answer to a problem, think twice before attacking a strong army - you might find a way to defeat them.

Everything is correct. When you feel there's a chance, you eliminate the enemy, sometimes changing tactics if the first attempt doesn't work. Sometimes it takes 10-20 attempts. But sometimes you immediately see that winning is impossible, unless it's by chance. For example, unlike in the third game, it's impossible to defeat a Crusader with a Fairy in the fourth (I won't explain why). You can rely on skill, but not on luck. Perhaps that's why difficult saves from other players aren't always achievable – sometimes the player is helped by chance (randomness) that simply won't happen to you. And besides, your own task is more interesting – the one you're working towards yourself, rather than the one someone else is leading you to. Now I often make saves, and in the case of an interesting battle, I sometimes replay it, changing tactics. But I've also noticed something – if the first victory was very impressive, even if it was by chance, then when repeating the battle, the result may be worse – it feels like the AI learns and also changes its tactics.

I want to share another problem that sometimes occurs in single-player (it cannot happen in Multiplayer by definition). There are scenarios where the victory condition is to destroy a specific hero. When playing on Champion difficulty, I have repeatedly encountered a situation where this hero dies in a battle with neutral creatures (only his tomb remains). And even after completely destroying all enemies, it is impossible to finish the game (the standard victory conditions do not apply). Sometimes this is only discovered at the end of the game (and the death could have happened at the very beginning). How to resolve such a situation? If the AI clears the path to the tomb with its last city, will it pick it up to revive the hero, or will it follow a different algorithm, ignoring fallen heroes? On a large map, there is not much desire to retrace a path that has already been successfully completed several times. By the way, I might be wrong, but I remember that on a lower difficulty level, the opposite situation occurred – on the same map, victory was awarded simply if a specific hero died (either to neutral creatures or allies). I tested the option of clearing the path to the tomb – it works. The only thing left is to wait for the hero to be revived.

I remembered one map from Hugolka: it's called "Sea", and the main problem is breaking through the neutral creatures (hit-and-run tactics and scouts stealing resources right under the enemy's nose don't work because of a special script).
Here's a review of the map.
http://heroes.ag.ru/maps/reviews/Sea.shtml

either respawn and wait until you become stronger, or use magic and single-target spells to remove the debuffs.