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Posts from Dates for the club final in Michurinsk.
The plan was to hold the final of the club tournament in Michurinsk from April 30 to May 3. It would coincide with the holidays.
However, the finalists from Ukraine can only start playing from the 3rd. Still, from May 3rd to 6th might be too much. Or maybe not. I would suggest the following: start the first round on May 2nd, the second round on May 3rd, the third round on May 4th, and the last, fifth round on May 5th. This would include two working days, May 4th and 5th. The players from Ukraine would play the first round among themselves.
I ask the participants of the final to respond regarding the tournament dates.
Option 1: from April 30 to May 3. Option 2: from May 2 to May 5.
It would be good to decide quickly so that people can book tickets; I will post the voting results.
Piterius
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Damn, where is the option for May 6-9? It looks like your elections – there's the United Russia party and some other one... May 4, 5, and 6 are working days for both us and you, which means this is no longer a tournament for the holidays; you'd have to take time off, and with that approach, you could schedule it for any dates. And where is the option to choose between a club or a resort?
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.
icq: 407907277 skype: piterius_i
Nagan-4
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Damn, where is the option for May 6-9? It looks like your elections – there's the United Russia party and some other party... May 4, 5, and 6 are working days for us, so this is no longer a tournament during the holidays; you'd have to take time off, which means you could schedule it for any dates. And where is the option to choose between a club or a resort? __________________
Maybe you could also add an option to choose between poker or Heroes?
If the tournament is held in Michurinsk, then as the organizer, I am setting out the possible conditions for holding it. It is up to the players to agree or not.
If a tournament is held in Michurinsk, as the organizer, I am setting out the possible conditions for its conduct. It is up to the players to agree or not.
In general, this is arbitrary, and in some places, it's even inadequate. As I understand it, this tournament is not for the players, but for Nagan-4, the club, and television. It's strange; everything seems to be on a voluntary basis, no one is getting paid for this, so there's no need to nitpick over the terms of the contract, and everyone is paying their own way. What's the point of setting strict limits? Every year, there are fewer and fewer players, and the opinions of those who remain are being disregarded by some half-understood principles of the organizers. I'm passing on this tournament because I disagree with the approach to the organization and the principles of the organizer. They criticize those who give them a reason to do so. The criticism here is quite constructive, but it hits a brick wall. It's still unclear how it's possible to complete 5 rounds in 4 days, because 4 rounds are not enough for 25 people. Unless about 12 people show up, then everything will be fine. Volodymyr won't be able to make it, and Forrest is doubtful, with a 95% chance he won't. Perhaps Psyshe and Medium will find a way to come and support the event.
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.
icq: 407907277 skype: piterius_i
Nagan-4
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I am passing on this tournament because I disagree with the approach to its organization and the principles of the organizer.
Your decision is accepted.
They criticize those who give them a reason to. The criticism here sounds quite constructive, but it hits some kind of impenetrable wall. It's still unclear how it's possible to complete 5 rounds in 4 days, because 4 rounds are not enough for 25 people. Unless only about 12 people show up, then, of course, everything will be fine.
Indeed, I found myself backed into a corner. If this issue had been raised earlier, it would have been possible to find some room for maneuver.
Since the final is in Michurinsk, I, as the organizer, should have thought through all the issues so that players and guests could come and play and relax comfortably. Since it was impossible to raise the issue, I found the only way to solve the problem – I made an agreement with the club, and not at the last minute, but in advance, so that there would be computers and two gaming zones, and different versions for the game. So that people only have to play.
There were no questions until mid-March. And when I could no longer change anything, complaints began. I don't want to know how much the club spent on me; I'm not going to give the money back, and I'm not going to cancel anything either. Because later it will turn out that the option with the sanatorium is also not ideal, and the club is better (again, putting up a wall, etc.).
And the people who criticized the most will still not come.
Now about the dates. It is impossible to play on the 9th; I do not have the consciousness of a human rights activist to rush at the security forces with the slogan "But I want to!". I am used to living according to the rules established by society, even if I sometimes disagree.
Should it be on the 5th-8th? Or 4th-7th? There may be a large variation in dates here, and it still won't satisfy everyone.
In fact, if the esteemed Peterius cannot come, then there is no point in conducting a poll, because, according to reports, Forrest and Volodimer will not be able to come either. I regret that this happened.
All that's left is to applaud. Was this topic opened for me? There's a real desire to come, bring Ukraine with me, and they tell me to go away, I have a club. There's no Minsk, no Ukraine – is this the CIS final? Is this a good organization? Just another qualifying tournament in Michurinsk, nothing more. Just close the topic.
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.
icq: 407907277 skype: piterius_i
=Stinger=
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I don't understand why the timeframe is set specifically for the May holidays... Eric, if you want to have a full-fledged tournament, you need at least 5 days. In any case, the May holidays will include working days, so maybe you should just move it forward by a week or two, discuss the dates with all the participants, take 3 days of vacation, and not rush things?
KobRa_RR
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I vote for the third option: move everything to May 5-9 (exactly 5 days), and pay the club a penalty.
Nagan-4
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I vote for the third option: move everything to May 5-9 (exactly 5 days), and pay the club a penalty.
2 Kobra. How many times do I have to repeat that it's impossible to play on the 9th? As many times as you write, that's how many times I'll answer. But at least read my answers.
There's no Minsk, there's no Ukraine - is this the CIS final? Is this good organization? Just another qualifying tournament in Michurinsk, nothing more. Close the topic.
Oh, so it's my fault that there's no Minsk? I thought they didn't hold their own qualifiers. They only had one person who knew how to run tournaments - Skuns. When he left, the tournaments stopped. It's like in St. Petersburg when Maniak left, and later Horn, or in Moscow - when Chaos left. If I leave, there will be no one to run tournaments in Michurinsk.
Regarding Ukraine, I also regret that things turned out this way. I really wanted to meet Forrest; we've both been playing Heroes for many years, and we used to chat a lot on ICQ, but we never managed to meet. I know Volodimer less well, and I've already written everything about Piterius. If anyone from Ukraine can come (those who played in the qualifiers but didn't make the top three), I'll gladly accept them into the tournament.
I don't understand why the time frame is set specifically for the May holidays... Eric, if you want a full-fledged tournament, you need at least 5 days, no less. In any case, the May holidays will affect working days, so maybe just move it forward by a week or two, discuss the dates with all the participants, take 3 days off, and don't rush things?
2 Stinger. I also have a personal life. I have people working for me, and I can't let them down. I can't just take 3-4 days off in addition to the weekend for work. So, right now, I'm sitting at work for a couple of hours longer because of all this arguing.
Who is unhappy with what. Kobra and Mee - they are unhappy that the CIS championship final is not being held in Egypt. No comment. Wicc - he is unhappy that we won't be playing at a sanatorium; I've already written to him about this. Piterius - he is writing about the dates. He is particularly insistent on playing on the 9th. He says it's impossible, but you have to make it happen, he wants it.
Piterius - he's writing about the dates. He's insisting we play on the 9th. He's like, 'can't do it, but you damn well better make it happen, I want it.' Dima DVStranger once told me the right thing about being friends with Piterius, what would come of it.
Hmm, actually, if I insisted on anything, it was on the tournament base, not on playing on the 9th :). Yes, I already realized that you and Dima are birds of a feather. He twisted and distorted things, and so do you. You also ignore direct questions, spout vague talk, and latch onto words or snippets of your opponent's phrases. Filter your conclusions, Eric. I wrote clearly and plainly on the forum — post the results of the poll on the dates, and if the majority is for May 1st, no one will hear me, so what am I so insistently pushing for??? You dug your heels in, there are no poll results, nor the poll itself, so naturally I tried to find some options to come, but I did NOT DEMAND THE DATES BE MOVED PERSONALLY FOR MYSELF. Only if the majority votes for it! So don't be absurd!
I don't know what friendship you're talking about; we had a conflict several years ago. Back then, you already fancied yourself a top-tier org, making decisions based on your own arrogance. Almost the entire forum united against me, a forum newcomer back then, but no one — not you, not anyone else — could give me counterarguments other than the fact that you'd been here a long time, you were a great judge, and you had the right to be wrong. I thought maybe I was mistaken, I wanted to discuss this situation in person somehow, but it's all pointless. Everything and everyone that goes against you and your plans is simply dismissed by you. You are unable to accept criticism. It's the same now; you want to rely on your authority.
I don't know what you've organized 30 times, but believe me, renting a club, setting up the games there, booking a hotel or a tournament base — that's the easiest part of organizational work. The hardest part is gathering and uniting people, taking their wishes, capabilities, and personalities into account as much as possible. In this, as it turned out, you miscalculated. Bending somewhere, conceding somewhere — that's not your style. You're dug in on May 1st and the club, and screw everyone else. If you have limited options regarding dates, why take it on? Why set dates without polling the participants? How can you set barriers and negotiate with a club two months in advance? I see all this as "UNPROFESSIONALISM" in organizational matters. And the icing on the cake — "go to hell if anyone doesn't like it." And that's because EVERYONE should adapt to you. I would understand it if there were tons of players, but there aren't, just a handful. Plus, you yourself insisted that this is an ELITE tournament, and winners of tournaments should participate. But no, for the sake of the club, you're ready to hold additional qualifiers — not for the winners, but for the club!
And you expect me to keep quiet about all this? I see no point in turning a blind eye to the most obvious crooked things. I always say it like it is, regardless of any authorities, even if it's harsh, and without any selfish motives, but for the triumph of common sense. And that's partly why I've achieved a lot in my life. Even if many don't like it.
It's the same in such matters — I always follow the principle of "adapting my situation to the circumstances", but never adapting circumstances to myself. That is a detrimental and unsuccessful path in any serious endeavor; it's a shame you don't want to understand that.
Enough about Piterius; I already wrote that I'm not coming. The reasons are clear — disagreements with the organizer.
...I don't know what you organized 30 times, but believe me, renting a club, setting up games, renting a hotel or a resort – that's the easiest thing you can do in terms of organization. The most difficult thing is to gather and unite people, taking into account their wishes, abilities, and personality traits as much as possible...
Golden words! Right on the mark!
Nagan-4
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I don’t know what friendship you’re talking about; we had a conflict several years ago. Back then, you fancied yourself an almighty... org, making decisions based on your own arrogance. Almost the entire forum rallied against me, a newcomer, but no one—neither you nor anyone else—could provide counterarguments except that you’d been around for a long time, were a great judge, and had the right to be wrong. I thought maybe I was mistaken; I wanted to discuss this situation in person, but it’s all pointless. Everything and everyone that goes against you and your plans is simply ignored by you. You are incapable of accepting criticism. It’s the same now—you want to coast on your authority.
Yes, I agree, there was no friendship, nor could there have been. We’d need to find that old thread, if it hasn’t been deleted. You really showed yourself well there.
Bending somewhere, conceding somewhere—that’s not your way.
Yes, thanks, I try not to bend. As for concessions, I try to make them everywhere, as long as it doesn’t harm the cause.
I don’t know what you’ve organized 30 times, but believe me, renting a club, setting up games there, booking a hotel or a resort—that’s the easiest part of organizational work.
That’s exactly the problem. You sincerely believe there was no Heroes history, but I believe there was. And there were wonderful people there... Delfor, Alan, Alex from Lugansk, Phil, Lord Maniac, and many others. You could communicate with them adequately on the forums; they knew how to admit mistakes and forgive them. You’re from the same generation as Samurai—people who believe everything started with Bay, including the manner of communication and traditions. Whoever writes more viciously is right. That’s not about the Bay guys, but specifically about those who start wars.
As for organization, you’re wrong. Of the orgs I’ve spoken with—Alan Prost, Horn—they got really exhausted at such tournaments. It was easier for Chaos, but he only held champs among Muscovites, doing a draw once a week, and that’s it. A tournament where more than 30 players and guests arrive is complex overall. The Kyiv guys tried hard last year, yet there were still plenty of complaints against them.
And you want me to keep quiet about all this? I see no point in turning a blind eye to the most blatantly crooked things. I always speak as it is, regardless of any authorities, even if harshly, and without any self-interest—for the triumph of common sense. That’s partly why I’ve achieved a lot in my life. Even if many don’t like it.
Likewise, in such matters, I always follow the principle of “adapting my situation to the circumstances,” but never adapting circumstances to myself. That’s a flawed and unsuccessful path in any serious endeavor—it’s a shame you don’t want to understand that.
Besides that, there’s also magnanimity and nobility. Last year, Michurinsk lost the final vote to Kyiv by two votes. Could I have denounced Captain and Sam during the preparations last year, when a wave of criticism was hitting them? Yes, of course I could have—saying, I came up with this tournament, and now it’s falling apart, everyone’s at each other’s throats. And the moment was convenient for an attack. But I didn’t do it, and I won’t. On the contrary, I urged everyone to play, and the tournament, despite all its flaws, went ahead.
In real life, I can choose who to associate with. That’s why I came to this forum—because there were very adequate people here. Javdet, Decon, Evgeniy, Loy, Ta ko... and many others. If you and Samurai were on the forum, I would never have come.
I don’t understand how it’s come to this—that I’m writing these posts... almost like I’m justifying myself... but there’s nothing to justify to you or to Samurai. I do what I must, as best I can.
As for unprofessionalism. Sorry, but that’s not for you to judge. When we have several permanent Heroes club tournaments, then we can talk about professionalism.
Captain
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1. Nagan, what do you want to prove by arguing with Peterius? That he's not a good person? As Dale Carnegie said, in an argument, everyone always sticks to their own opinion. Peterius has already successfully organized two qualifying rounds – not a single negative word has been heard about his organization!
2. Regarding Kyiv – you don't need to say anything negative, but the way you write: "the tournament, despite all its shortcomings, was successful" – that's enough to create a negative impression about Kyiv. And you weren't even there. And you've made similar statements more than once. The tournament judge in Kyiv, Vik, made a detailed report: http://cyberfight.ru/site/columns/56/article_67714/ I advise everyone to reread it. It just doesn't mention things like how Sem led the "eburzhans" around in circles and settled the Muscovites, asking the guy, "Are you Olya?" :)
3. Regarding the idea for the previous final – actually, it was Sem's idea; he wanted to organize a meeting, I picked it up and voiced it, and then you suggested making it not just a gathering, but an event for the entire CIS.
4. I have organized many events for work, mainly at the international level, and therefore I can afford to give advice: You should go to Crimea, Nagan :)
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
Nagan-4
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1. Nagann, what do you want to prove by arguing with Peterius? That he is not a good person? As D. Carnegie said, in an argument, everyone always sticks to their opinion. Peterius has successfully organized two qualifying tournaments – not a single negative word has been heard about his organization!
I don't think Peterius is a bad person. Thank you for the tournaments you organized. If he wants to host the CIS championship final in 2012, the entire Heroes community will thank him. And when he himself encounters all the problems that you faced, and now I am, then we can talk about professionalism and other things.
2. About Kyiv – we can avoid saying negative things, but the way you write: "the tournament, despite all its shortcomings, was successful" – is enough to create a negative impression about Kyiv.
But weren't there dropouts at the championship? Didn't players make complaints to you? When we talked to the finalists in person, they told me enough about the tournament. The fact that the tournament took place is definitely a plus for you. But it would be great if last year's final became an impetus for the development of Heroes in your city. Because you yourself write that only one person is willing to play in the tournament. And you have the potential to become one of the top three Heroes centers.
3. About the idea of last year's final – actually, it was Sema's idea; he wanted to organize a meeting, I picked it up and voiced it, and then you suggested making it not just a gathering, but an event for the entire CIS.
Here is the topic about the Heroes League 2006. The author is glad to see you.
4. I have organized many events for work, mainly at the international level, and therefore I can afford to give advice: You should go to Crimea, Nagann.
Why Crimea? I was going to Sochi. Although, if Dzhavdet invites me, I might visit Crimea, I want to see his paintings and relax on the beach.
If you sent me there like that... then show me where I was rude to you?
Wicc
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Samurai and Cap are like flies, they swarm around any commotion. :)
