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Libya and Egypt are like Chechnya and the rest of Russia in terms of their warlike nature.
So, will we have to pay a penalty?
Alan Prosta (in 2003) already had comfortable conditions for recreation; he rented a two-story apartment for us, plus a country house for Antal and Co. Even I (a student at the time) could afford it. It's just that laptops weren't so common back then, and no one even thought about playing games anywhere other than in clubs. But it turns out you can, and everyone enjoys it, as the recent gatherings in Minsk, held at a country cottage complex, have shown. I still don't understand why it's impossible to combine recreation, socializing, and a tournament. Why does any deviation from the planned schedule cause such rejection? Why are you so attached to this club? Does everyone really want to go to Michurinsk and spend 4 days cooped up in a club? :confused: I still hope that common sense will prevail over conservatism! :smile12:
A trip to Michurinsk will cost a resident of St. Petersburg 10-12 thousand rubles, while a trip to Egypt will cost 16-20 thousand rubles, depending on the hotel. So that no one thinks that there is some kind of obsession with Egypt, I propose a compromise: MINSK. The cost of the trip is 10 thousand rubles. In return, you'll also get participants from Minsk, Moscow, and it will definitely be more convenient for Ukrainians.
Yes, yes, let's go to Minsk; events always go well there!
Let me reiterate, to emphasize the point – the main problem with such tournaments isn't the venue or the organization of living arrangements.
The biggest problem is time. It seems like I'm the only one who understands this. Perhaps because I'm the one responsible for adhering to the schedule, while the players are more focused on their performance.
So, in Kyiv, we had 4 days, 16 players, and 4 rounds. We barely managed to stay within the time limit. And to even play the final, Roland had to exchange his tickets and drive to Minsk with Napalm late at night. And the match for prize money between Pit and Vitalik wasn't even played, and I had to assign a result that couldn't be assigned. But what if Pit, not Roland, had been in the final? Would we have flipped a coin? Would we have finished the game online?
Moreover, the players spent all day and night in the club, barely going anywhere else, and I even had to keep Captain away from them, as he was trying to tempt them with various entertainment activities.
Adhering to the schedule, I tell you, comrades, is a real headache. Simply wanting it isn't enough.
Here, we'll have about 25 people, which means a theoretical minimum of 5 rounds, otherwise, we'll have to determine the champion using the Buchholz system. And there are also talks about barbecues, billiards, and bowling... "no, son, that's just a fantasy."
Therefore, every half-hour or hour here is worth its weight in gold. If you calculate the amount of time spent on related activities – moving from the sleeping quarters to the club and back, from the club to the cafe and back, gathering and waiting for people, coordinating movements around the city, midnight poker/idleness instead of late-night game completions (there will definitely be such games), etc. – you'll find that it amounts to at least 2 hours a day (and probably more). Multiply that by 4 days, and you get 8 hours – essentially a full round.
Moreover, these delays are parasitic – nothing constructive happens during the process; it's just waiting. The resort format eliminates all these delays – almost 100% of the time is spent on constructive activities – playing, eating, sleeping, and other entertainment.
No, are you actually being serious with what you wrote? Let's take this one step at a time.
1. We agreed in advance to hold the CIS club championship in HoMM3. Based on this, I am calmly preparing the championship, incurring certain expenses, and coordinating with people and players. In over 10 years, I have organized more than 30 Tournaments; frankly, I don't intend to prove anything to anyone.
It has always been this way—the organizer takes charge of the organization because they know the local realities best. On the other hand, if the tournament fails, they get the blame; that's normal.
I take responsibility for running the tournament. If I fail—blame me. But afterwards, not before!!!!!!! There is nothing more to discuss here.
Moving on.
2 Peterius.
Hm, I see, I won't get answers to my questions.
I didn't hear your questions. I am doing everything I can to accommodate you, thinking about how to run the final and shift the deadlines so that you can play. Read my posts above. Am I not doing what I can?
Wicc is right, exactly—fools. But apparently, things with the club are so "tight" it's practically a prenuptial agreement. Or maybe there is something else we don't know.
Go ahead, assume whatever you like about what we have there.
In any case, contracting practice should provide the right to withdraw from an intention, especially if those intentions depend on many factors and there is a substantial time reserve. Another matter is that you, Eric, had no desire from the start to use this right. If you've already promised, then yes, everyone will have to adjust, but what's the point?
It's simply that I gave my word and the people at the club trusted me. They rearranged the computers as I asked, gave me time to run tests, and agreed to all the conditions I proposed. When people treat me with human decency, I respond in kind. You are younger than me, you grew up in a different environment, and perhaps this seems like a foolish anachronism to you.
Same thing with the billiards and BBQ—the game schedule will be tossed out, partly because of the events themselves and partly because of the confusion facilitating it.
2 Wicc
Well, in the evening, after the tour—we'll play properly or have some snacks. What, is this the first time we're doing this?
There will be about 25 people here, meaning the theoretical minimum is 5 rounds, otherwise we'll have to determine the champion via Buchholz. And then there's talk of some BBQ, billiards, bowling... "no son, that's fantasy."
No, you need to make up your mind. If it's a sanatorium-style bed-rest regime, then we definitely won't have time. If it's a normal tournament—then we will. I can list all my tournaments, except for the summer one—the only time I consciously turned it into a drinking bout. But surely there's a difference between a friendly get-together and a CIS championship?
I completely agree with Wicc. We talked about this a lot in Kyiv. Although I suggested everyone go to Minsk for the next tournament
2 Captain. And last year I was persuading people to go to Kyiv so that you could hold a full-scale tournament.
In Kyiv, people stayed for 300r, and the club ended up being 450r for all days. Maybe everyone should head to Kyiv again?
Listen, convince Cobra and Peterius to go to you. It'll be easier for me, as I'm tired of justifying obvious things.
Sorry if I wrote something harshly; today has been a hard day at work. Peace to all.
By the way, it seems to me the problem is also that Nagan simply hasn't been to Kingisepp or Minsk in a long time and forgot (if he was even there?) how all this works. Please listen to the people. Now, a question... Eric, what exactly did you promise the club, jokes aside? Hit me up in private please.
2 Cobra. I'll tell you more: I've never even been there. I listen to people, but on the condition that it's not to my own detriment. As for what I promised the club—see above.
Pelyad, what the heck are you doing here, spreading all this nonsense!? Vik, where are you crawling to? You didn't even read what you wrote. You're not the organizer of this tournament, so show some respect – stop interfering with your advice and writing lengthy, demagogic posts about how things should be done and what's right! Erik will figure out where and how to run his tournament without you, so stop discussing it!
You've started stirring up trouble again, a month before the tournament, about where it should be held!? Last time, you suggested Kyiv, and now you're suggesting Egypt – what's going on, guys!?
Let the man run the TOURNAMENT that he came up with and organized. He's more than capable, and he doesn't need you telling him what to do! ______
You asked for my opinion on the Egypt issue.
Once again, Egypt is great, it's awesome, and I would even go there if this event were planned earlier as a vacation with like-minded people, with poker, socializing, and hanging out... – everything would be perfect. But why did you start writing about this gathering (!!!) in the tournament thread – I don't understand! Out of respect for Erik, I am strongly againsthaving the event called "CIS Heroes 3 Championship" held there, without proper organization, without most of the qualified participants, in an "atmosphere that clearly doesn't promote computer gaming."
LeBron, Gunnar, LordDim, and others, for some reason, quietly gathered there, but they didn't start an absurd discussion on the forum, and they didn't put the label "CIS Championship" on their joint vacation! What's going on here? Let those who want to go to Egypt do so – a great vacation is guaranteed! But, those who want to PLAY IN THE TOURNAMENT are welcome in Michurinsk, as originally planned! And let's stop these stupid habits of interfering at the last moment with your crazy opinions and messing up good people's plans!
P.S. Thank you for your attention! The pointless chatter of some people on the forum is really annoying.
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с) В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
In principle, fans might also be interested in knowing where the final will be held, at the club or at the training ground. So, I think a working discussion on this topic is perfectly reasonable.
Okay, I found the time to reread the posts above. There is some truth in post #88 – I agree, it might have been easier for us to stay in a "sanatorium," not run around, and have everything we need – food, drinks, and the ability to relax without leaving our computers. This would probably save some time, which we always seem to lack... but, Vic, listen to what Nagan is saying, and try to understand him. I think we can organize this according to Eric's plan; he has experience with this, and it's quite feasible, if everyone is more organized and focused on the game! And in general, it would be better to discuss these things in ICQ or private messages, rather than airing them on the forum.
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с) В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
Pelyad, what kind of nonsense are you writing here!? Vik, where are you sticking your nose? You didn't even read what you wrote. You're not the organizer of this tournament; show some respect – don't interfere with your advice and demagoguery, writing a hundred words per post about how to do things better and what is right. Eric will figure out where and how to run his tournament without you, and there's no need to discuss it further!
But you should read it and think. I'm not talking nonsense here; I'm saying very sensible things. Which, by the way, are based on personal experience in organizing such tournaments. Neither you nor Eric have this experience – because in recent years (I don't know what happened before), you mainly held small gatherings "for your own people," without much sporting motivation. That is, a lot is forgiven there.
Heroes and hero enthusiasts have changed somewhat since the days of Krasnodar. It seems that not everyone has realized this fact yet. So, I know this group that will come very well, simply because I have already participated in organizing club tournaments specifically for them several times. And I understand their needs and attitude, especially fueled by the prize pool. And I also know what will happen if this is done haphazardly.
The "I'll do it first, then you can criticize" approach doesn't suit me at all. Because the task is to run the tournament well, not to find a culprit. And it won't make me feel better if Eric gets blamed. And he is rushing headlong towards this joyful event.
That's why I'm warning about the problems. And I'm asking – how is he going to run 5 rounds in 4 days, combining it with bowling, barbecue, poker, and other activities? Given that individual matches lasting 12 hours are the norm, and people's endurance is limited, as is their ability to sit in the club all day without a significant degradation of enthusiasm.
It's not a problem for me; I can just come to Michurinsk as a guest and hang out. And I don't particularly want to stand in the way. If a Chukchi is cutting off a branch and also insults in response to a warning, I'll just move on. This is roughly the meaning of my posts here.
Okay, I understand, I won't interfere anymore. The situation itself is frustrating, with everyone jumping in where they shouldn't... I'm not quite "there" yet either :-(. There are some reasonable points, but they'll be discussed on the forum, and that's late at night...
I agree with Eric's suggestion because I know that everything depends on each of us! On the purpose of the trip and the desire to play.
If I'm going to a Heroes tournament, I'm playing the Heroes tournament first and foremost, and that's how I prioritize. And if I've been playing poker all night and had a few drinks, I'll still get up and go to the Heroes tournament, because I'm the one who's to blame and I signed up... out of respect for the organizer and my original goal!
Тот, кто борется - может проиграть, кто нет - проиграл уже (с) В прошлом "Координатор турниров Лиги Героев" (www.heroesleague.ru)
The problem is that many, if not most, see Heroes 3 as an opportunity to meet friends from other cities and countries, and the tournament itself becomes secondary. Take Kyiv, for example... I personally only visited the apartment we rented on the last day. So, I fully understand the desire to gather everyone together in one place for the duration of the tournament or just for a get-together. Poker, age, and families have somewhat distanced us from the game itself, from the desire to prove something to someone. All that remains is the enjoyment of the game, and I would like this enjoyment to go hand in hand with comfort. At the same time, I don't want to offend anyone; I know how important the tournament is to Erica, so I don't think the location should be a point of contention – it's Michurinsk. But the real problem lies in the lack of unity. We need to live together; the experience of recent tournaments proves this. If we solve the accommodation problem – whether it's a base or a private house – there won't be any problems, I think. I believe that even if there isn't a possibility in Michurinsk to order a van or bus to a specific location every morning, a taxi isn't that expensive and won't break the bank. It's almost funny to even talk about it. We sometimes drink and lose amounts in poker in one night that are many times greater than the cost of a daily taxi tour of the city for a month. So, we can organize transportation to the club using this bus.
Eric, having 7-8 people at your place isn't really feasible because there will be many more who want to stay from the very first day, and I wouldn't want you to have problems with your neighbors or for guests to be disappointed.
In general, it would be great to find:
1. Suitable accommodation that can accommodate everyone who wants to come.
2. A service or private individuals willing to transport participants from point A to point B.
If all of this is resolved, attendance at the club will no longer be a problem.
It seems simple, but I might not be aware of the nuances that could prevent Eric from doing this.
I'll be coming to Michurinsk (I don't see any alternatives). Regarding the date: ideally, I'd like to organize things for the 30th-4th, as I'd like to see Alex at the tournament to ensure its success. Regarding the venue: I'm used to club tournaments; I haven't seen any others, and I don't really want to lug my laptop around. The poker-style tournament at a resort is a bit daunting, to be honest.
I didn't hear your questions. I'm trying my best to accommodate you, thinking about how to run the final, reschedule the dates so you can participate. Read my previous posts. Am I not doing what I can?
You heard everything. I'm asking specific questions, and you're avoiding answering, just talking around the issue. Don't tell me you don't see the difference between "in this situation, I'm adapting to the circumstances" and "I'm adapting the circumstances to my specific situation." Are you uncomfortable with me? Then announce the results of the poll: how many people can come on April 30th, and how many on May 6th? If the majority are available on May 1st, I will silently observe the situation and definitely not come. What's the point of suggesting May 1st-5th if the number of people who can come during those dates is unknown? I don't think you're "doing what you can." More like "doing what happens." With all due respect, it seems like the goal is to fulfill some personal ambitions first. We can give the club some money, it's not a big deal. The main thing is to please the majority; otherwise, what's the point of the tournament?
Vik is 100% right. Running 5 rounds, including entertainment activities, in 4 days at the club is unrealistic. I've organized 2 tournaments myself and participated in 2 more. This is a fairy tale. One or two games drag on, and as a result, 4 people are waiting for the next round, and so on, a chain reaction. The optimal format with so many people is 1 game per day, and it must be finished within the day, no matter what, i.e., play until the end. This is problematic at the club if you need to travel somewhere. Therefore, a full-fledged tournament with a final is unlikely. Unless you resolve everything through technical decisions and forfeits.
I don't understand why we can't do a poll on dates, the number of days participants can come, and the location - the club or a resort? We're just spinning our wheels. Let's listen to the participants, and then we'll make a decision and discuss it based on the available data. Or we won't discuss anything, and whoever can come, comes – Russian-style democracy :).
Dust, no one is trying to force anything; there's an ongoing discussion about the venue, and I'd like to note for the record that the finalists have a say in this, just as they do in discussing the rules, version, etc. Simply put, a lot has changed since 2003, and most people can't be lured in just by hanging out at a club. Expectations have increased; people want a cultural program, good conditions, and that's not necessarily a good or bad thing, it's just normal! (Not my words.) One more time, for the blind, deaf, and otherwise visually impaired: no one is trying to usurp Eric's right to host the final (we had enough of that last year). But if Eric continues to ignore the opinions of at least half of the participants, we're heading towards a repeat of that scenario, and it might actually be better to bring in some younger people and mix them with a few experienced veterans. If there's a problem with the club, I'm willing to help resolve it using my resources. Although, in my opinion, the problem is somewhat exaggerated, I'll do it just to ensure that everyone is happy.
I'll come to Michurinsk (I don't see any alternatives). Regarding the date: it would be good to organize things for the 30th-4th, as I would like Alex to be at the tournament to make it more solid. Regarding the venue: I'm used to club tournaments; I haven't seen any others, and I don't really want to lug my laptop around. The poker-style resort option is a bit scary, to be honest.
Check with Alex; you guys seem to know each other well. According to Cobra, a couple of days' delay is acceptable for him.
A tournament with accommodation at the resort would be preferable, but: a) When this issue was first raised, it somehow didn't generate any interest. Eric has been talking about preliminary agreements with the club for a long time; now, as far as I understand, everything has been finally agreed upon. Yes, there is still time, but as far as I understand from Eric, he has already checked the computers, checked the installation of all the necessary components, i.e., for once, we can go to the club and immediately start playing, instead of spending half a day installing (or even downloading) missing programs, as was the case in Kyiv and Moscow. b) The venue for the games in the recreation center? In some post, Yuri painted a rosy picture. In Kingisepp, we were given a room for games thanks to Napalm's personal connections. Here, as far as I understand, renting a conference room for a whole day will cost a fortune; and playing on the verandas – who will provide the power outlets?
In short, he wrote a bunch of stuff, there are arguments for and against. For me, the decisive argument is still: since Eric claims that violating the agreements with the club could negatively affect his reputation, we should accept the option he proposed.
Read it! Everything is clear! But don't forget about priorities! Everyone says everything is correct, but overall – it's a mess! I can join in organizing the event – I have enough experience from Krasnodar)!!! The organizers declare the rules, and the tournament participants must at least minimally adhere to them!!! And it is the organizers who, having weighed all the pros and cons, must make the final decision – it is the only and correct one!!! I think planning Egypt should not be done before 2012 – or it will be a whole different story! 1 day, 1 game – obviously – 6 days for the tournament is the minimum))))
Sup
