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Posts from Mafia: general discussions.

Mafia
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Offline Zybr
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Posts: 7,033
#1159
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Once again...
Player Hryusha receives a modkill for the action "nh" (naughty :D). Afterwards, he realizes that he shouldn't do that because he will receive a modkill for it.
The strict wording of the rules applies, within the framework of this forum, to tournaments, but not to games that primarily serve as entertainment.
And preventing this in such a way is generally unrewarding, because next time there will be another loophole, then a third, and so on.

And if the GM decides, then his decision is equivalent to any rule in any case.
Yes, there is also such a thing as doubt. For example, it's a pity to give a modkill because it's just a game, or a novice GM is afraid that the players will then express complaints to him. Overcoming such doubts will also be helped by a modkill in some previous game based on the logic of "it was already done like this".


Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!


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Offline Gil4
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Posts: 677
#1160
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Zybr
Once again...
Player Hryusha receives a modkill for the action "nh" (not good :D). Subsequently, he realizes that he shouldn't do that because he will receive a modkill for it.
But the modkill was not given, huh. That is, now you can continue to do this, because there was no punishment?
Zybr
The strict wording of the rules applies, within the framework of this forum, for tournaments, but not for games like this, which primarily serve as entertainment.
Why is that? I repeat, where did I make anything stricter? Show me a specific point in my version of the rule. I'm not trying to cancel the fun. And, as I said, my version is just a differently written old rule. It doesn't cancel the fun, it just more clearly formulates an existing restriction. Does anyone find it fun to do things like this? If not, then I don't understand the protest.
Zybr
And preventing this in this way is generally ungrateful, because next time there will be another loophole, then a third, and so on.
Let them try. I have limited most of the ways to violate the rules that can be called not too harsh. A loophole will already be a harsh violation, that's all.
Zybr
And if the GM decides, then his decision is equivalent to the rule in any case.
Yes, there is also such a thing as doubt. Well, it's a pity to give, for example, a modkill, because it's just a game, or a novice GM is afraid that the players will then make claims to him. Overcoming such doubts will also be helped by a modkill in some previous game, based on the logic of "it was already like that".
Again, it turns out that "it hasn't happened before." No modkill was issued. And now, every time a GM feels sorry for a player, should they break the rules?

P.S. I don't want to turn this into an argument. If someone is firmly convinced that there is no need to change the rule, but does not want to provide scientific arguments, then there is no need to argue with me and engage in demagoguery. I don't want that. Right now, I specifically want to understand where people see the problem. Namely, where is the rule being made stricter in my version. If there is a specific tightening, we will discuss it and remove it if necessary.



Even if we fight, even if there’s such thing
I will not give up
Just like this, I won't let go
Strongly grasping your right hand’s warmth
I’ll be here
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Offline Zybr
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Posts: 7,033
#1161
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Gil4, there was an example given in the situation with the Sorceress. It seems it was in the 12th game, maybe Mafia. Yes, they didn't issue a modkill there. So, here's the same situation, just with a slightly different premise.
Let's start with the fact that modkills were generally given only for inactivity, and even then, not always.
Therefore, the issue isn't just about the rules, or not entirely about them.
But no modkill was given, huh. So, now you can continue doing this, because there was no punishment?
There's noise in the replacement.


Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!


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Offline Gil4
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Posts: 677
#1162
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I'll review the 12th replay later and find the situation, okay. But that's not what we're talking about. I still want to understand where the difficulty has increased, and you were the one who said it has. :)



Even if we fight, even if there’s such thing
I will not give up
Just like this, I won't let go
Strongly grasping your right hand’s warmth
I’ll be here
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Online now Happy Life
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Posts: 24,155
#1163
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It’s not even interesting to read this thread anymore.
My sword, my trusted ally, unphased by my aspect.
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Offline Zybr
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Posts: 7,033
#1164
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In this language, it's not about being fun; it's about being bureaucratic.


Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!


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Offline Werevolka
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Posts: 6,022
#1165
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Gil4
That's why having such a rule is helpful – you shouldn't rely on the GM.
You know, I didn't even finish reading it, I immediately started replying to you (I'll finish reading it later).
Rule number one:
YOU MUST RELY ON THE GM.
- I would even write it like that in the rules.
Rule number 2 - If you're not sure - don't GM!!!
Rule number three - If you can't resolve an impending conflict, you're not a good GM!
Well, I would write something like that.
Now I'm going to finish reading your post.
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Online now Небо
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Posts: 35,786
#1166
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Am I being made out to be the one at fault here? Or am I misunderstanding something? I highly doubt that any of our GMs would have approved a modkill in this situation, as it was quite ambiguous. If I had approved a modkill, the same thing would have happened, and someone would have said I did the right thing, while someone else would have said I didn't, and then a few more compliments would have been added. Despite this, I believe I made the right decision by not approving a modkill.
Небо – мольбы не ждёт
Небо – угроз не слышит
Небо – ведёт особый счёт
Небо – тебя найдёт

По вопросам модерации: [email protected]
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Offline WhiteLizard
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Posts: 11,764
#1167
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No one blames you, Nebo.
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Online now Небо
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Posts: 35,786
#1168
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The sky does not await pleas.
The sky does not heed threats.
The sky keeps its own count.
Небо – мольбы не ждёт
Небо – угроз не слышит
Небо – ведёт особый счёт
Небо – тебя найдёт

По вопросам модерации: [email protected]
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Offline Gil4
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Posts: 677
#1169
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Zybr
The language used is not for fun, but rather bureaucratic.
This is done solely to ensure that there is no room for argument when a specific case is clearly defined by a particular rule. :)
GamaUn
You know, I didn't even finish reading it, I immediately started replying to you (I'll finish reading it later).
Rule number one:
YOU MUST RELY ON THE GM.
- I would even write that in the rules.
Rule number 2 - If you're not sure, don't GM!!!
Rule number three - If you can't resolve an impending conflict, you're a terrible GM!
Well, that's how I would write it.
Now I'm going to finish reading your post.
I have no further questions for you. :)
Nebo
It seems someone is trying to blame me? Or am I misunderstanding? I highly doubt that any of our GMs would have given a modkill in this situation, as it was quite ambiguous. If I had given a modkill, it would have been the same, and someone would have said that I did the right thing, and someone would have said that I didn't, and they would have added a couple more compliments. Despite this, I believe that I did the right thing by not giving a modkill.
If this is addressed to me, then no, of course not. I specifically added this in one of my previous posts:
Gil4
I'm not criticizing the fact that Nebo limited himself to a warning, not at all - he's the GM, and it's up to him to decide.
The point is not what measures the GM takes, but that the rules can be changed to prevent such situations altogether. Why solve problems as they arise if you can make it so that these problems don't appear at all?



Even if we fight, even if there’s such thing
I will not give up
Just like this, I won't let go
Strongly grasping your right hand’s warmth
I’ll be here
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Offline Hermit
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Posts: 3,465
#1170
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GamaUn
you know, I didn't even finish reading it, I immediately started replying to you (I'll finish reading it later).
Rule number one:
YOU NEED TO RELY ON THE GM.
- I would even write this in the rules.
Rule number 2 - If you're not sure - don't game!!!
Rule number three - If you can't resolve an escalating conflict - you're a bad GM!
Well, I would write something like that.
Now I'm going to finish reading your post.
+
+
?
Only rule number 3 raises a slight doubt...
Всё не так плохо как Вы думаете. Всё намного хуже!
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Offline Werevolka
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Posts: 6,022
#1171
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I just wanted to clarify that I have no questions or complaints about Haven. Haven, you are a wonderful game master, truly! My "rules" could actually help other beginner GMs feel that their word in the game is law. After the game, you can discuss, argue, prove, throw mud at each other, and do all that, but during the game, you can't argue with the game master. (Although, I wrote that, and immediately remembered the mistakes that our GMs sometimes make. You can point out a mistake to the GM, but whether to fix it or not, he should decide for himself). Well, and of course, I'm not insisting on my edited rules)). After all, it wasn't said too seriously. :D :D :D Is that clearer? Ugh, I just don't like emoticons.
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Offline Zybr
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Posts: 7,033
#1172
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Despite this, I believe I made the right decision by not allowing the mod.
That's the most important thing: not to doubt the decision, whatever it may be.


Барон "Vampires"

Отдай свои прошлые сны,
В сомненьях себя обрети,
В бешеном танце душа кружится!
Не думай, что будет потом,
Здесь и сейчас мы живем,
Стань хоть на миг сам собой, слышишь!


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Offline Thorium
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Posts: 949
#1173
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Sky, everything is great! Few people understood my clues either))) And I also made a mistake. By the way, I think Arandor's trick is within the rules.
Ты страшился тысячи вещей... Но все это были лишь маски, лишь видимости. На самом деле страшило тебя только одно решиться сделать шаг в неизвестное, маленький шаг через все существующие предосторожности. И кто хоть один раз оказывал великое доверие, полагался на судьбу, тот обретал свободу.
Мы не свободные, вольно танцующие автобусы. Мы – привязанные троллейбусы и трамваи
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