HeroesWorld

Posts from DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.”

Online Tournaments
5.0 (1 rating)
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline Дубровин Павел
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,832
Auto-translated
Pit for LM

Another question. There is a situation where the guard at the exit of the teleport or gate to the underworld does not need to be killed, but you can pass through to another respawn by killing the guard of something else (for example, a resource). Is it allowed to pass in this case? After all, the guard at the entrance (i.e., one of the passage guards) was destroyed. I have had such situations, and sometimes this point is very crucial.

I consider the guards of Teleports (Metro) to be one of the passage guards, and according to the Rules, they are allowed to be broken through at the player's choice.
That is, I do not consider it a violation when a Player passes to another respawn by breaking through the Guard of the Teleport (Metro) at the entrance, and not breaking through at the exit.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
1
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline Дубровин Павел
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,832
Auto-translated
Pit for LM
Now, about the Grail. An unexpected theoretical discussion. In practical Grail-digging, only one person admitted to it:

A full range of theoretical opinions is observed:

What should we do? We can completely remove the restrictions on digging during the winter season, with a mandatory report from both sides in this thread. If everyone starts digging and winning, we will either limit it by time, castles, or crosses, or we will ban it altogether. What we have now is practically a ban.


Those who were concerned about this issue have spoken out. Let the option that received the most support be included in the Rules.
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
1
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline Сатир
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,402
Auto-translated
Most people haven't expressed a unified opinion. For example, I haven't heard a single argument why the Grail should be banned. Someone takes Wings for a horde of wood, someone gets 3 Griffin Conservatories for 9 Angels at their native respawn, and someone digs for the Grail. Why not? Why make the game poorer? I don't think the Grail introduces any huge imbalance into the game, especially on a resource where many play on a SM (small) map, on which there has never been balance. If the problem is about trust, then I don't see a problem at all :) : don't play with those you don't trust, and that's that.
There are, however, towns in which building the Grail gives a huge advantage (Tower and Conflux), so building it can be banned in those. In the others, besides 5k per day and +50% growth, the bonuses are fairly insignificant. And with the Soda bug, you can easily peek at the town's income; you'll need not only to dig up the Grail, but also to hold the town in order to extract profit from it. In short, it's a fresh vein in the game; I think it should be tried out for at least 1 season.
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
Offline pHOMM
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 203
Auto-translated
Pit for LM
5.6. It is forbidden to move to adjacent territories without eliminating the guards stationed at the passage, including those that have been moved. If two or three guards are scattered along the path, any one of them can be destroyed.
If there are no guards at the passage, including those that have been moved, it is allowed to freely move from one spawn point to another. It is also allowed to enter adjacent territories using the Angel Wings, Dimension Door, and Flight spells without destroying the guards.
It is also allowed to pass by the passage guards without destroying them if the player has seen the opponent destroy one of the guards at that passage.

Question: "passage guards" and "scattered along the path" (and, by the way, the path here is not necessarily a literal road, but rather the hero's route or the actual path between cities) – these could be different guards. Sometimes there might even be a rock between the guards... although the location is the same, or the locations could be different; it varies, although you rarely see this in skirmish mode...
Previously, if I remember correctly, according to the Chaos rules, if you broke through the guard in one place of a zone, you could move through another place, because, logically, one of the zone's guards had already been defeated.

Therefore, the idea is that it should be stated clearly: if you want to pass through a given passage to another zone for the first time, you must destroy any guard at that passage of your choice. Naturally, double guards (teleporters and subways) are also considered guards, and after defeating one, I think you don't need to defeat the second (and besides, you will definitely have to kill the guard to pass back). In addition to the guards, the treasure guards of the zone should not be considered passage guards, and if there is a disagreement about which guard is the passage guard, competent people should be called in to resolve the issue by voting, but this is extremely rare, as treasures are usually evenly distributed and cannot usually be placed directly on the passage guards, although in random maps, anything is possible :D
Инфа о разных моих проектах, по большей части геройских, тут http://phomm.narod.ru
0
⚖️
0
In reply to pHOMM
User Avatar
Offline Oelm
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 2,571
Auto-translated
The only valid argument against allowing access to the Grail is that it would allow players to view the map and then read the text without any risk. However, I still suggest allowing access to the Grail. Regarding bypassing the guards at the entrance to the teleport-lift, I've changed my mind and believe that it's sufficient to bypass only one of them.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline RomarioGrom
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 816
Auto-translated
for breaking through the 1st guard in the teleport/metro. regarding the Grail, Oelm, what will be your reaction if someone digs it up while playing against you (and it significantly affects the course of the game), finding it within 1-3 attempts after having 3 open obelisks, claiming they were incredibly lucky? In such cases, trash talk is inevitable.


ICQ (559716573)

Стримы
http://ru.twitch.tv/romariogrom/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
0
⚖️
0
In reply to RomarioGrom
User Avatar
Offline Oelm
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 2,571
Auto-translated
Of course, it's a normal thing. Otherwise, you might end up with heroic paranoia.
The main point, however, is that such digging doesn't always give you an unconditional advantage. It might only work with the restriction of placing it in a Necropolis castle or a Tower. With three obelisks, digging from the 1st to the 3rd time is quite realistic.

Let's consider 2 cases:
1.
- The person cheats in general.
- The person cheats while digging for the Grail

Consequence: the more attention his game attracts, the more likely other suspicious moments will be found, which will help prove it.

- The person doesn't cheat in general.
- But cheats while digging for the Grail:

It's quite possible that his reputation will be more important than a dubious profit.

A real negative point: if the Grail factor starts to significantly affect the win rate. In this case, I'll admit that the idea didn't work out.

In general, I'm in favor of the experiment. We can always bring back the ban later.
Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.
1
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline Albert@s
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 596
Auto-translated
I propose to ban digging up the Grail before the start of week 3 and building it in Tower and Conflux. Well, as for those who start fake Grail hunts right away, it's all clear enough as it is...
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline RomarioGrom
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 816
Auto-translated
as an alternative, you could try a season, in Fortress and Tower, the ban will also last about 3 weeks, i.e., you can start digging and building from day 141.


ICQ (559716573)

Стримы
http://ru.twitch.tv/romariogrom/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline RiMpel2
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 2,985
Auto-translated
Pit for LM
Now about the Grail. An unexpected theoretical discussion. Only one admitted to actually digging for the Grail in practice.

I also dug using only 1 obelisk (if needed, I can find the report).
In my opinion, there's nothing cheat-like about this. I think the technique is not unknown. If you can find a section of the map from a single fragment, then what does maphack have to do with it? Everything is easy to dig up anyway.

And also regarding the practice of digging for the Grail. Precisely because of the old rules (5 weeks), no one even tried to dig, as the game was already ending.

IMHO, digging should be allowed from date 131, and for factions other than Tower\Conflux.

upd
Actually, digging on any day, but assembling from day 131!
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline SEM_56
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,944
Auto-translated
In a game with VIGO, he dug up the Grail on turn 114, but it broke the rules.
Ушел с героев, пока пряники)
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
Offline rebellious
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,257
Auto-translated
It's not difficult at all to unearth the Grail if you have some skill. And you can find the excavation site after discovering one obelisk. And even without discovering the obelisks! Experienced players will understand what I'm talking about, and for the rest, let it be a small puzzle :) I try to visit the obelisks myself, and when the game reaches the 6th week, everyone goes "potato hunting." I've dug it up 3-4 times in my experience (for statistics - within the range [500; 1000]), so I don't see any reason for restrictions, especially based on the type of city.
I'm against prohibiting the installation of the Grail in a Conflux or Tower. If these cities are starting cities and the army comes from these cities, then why can't I use the Grail's bonus? But the timing for unearthing it could be made more flexible; 113 or 114 might be too much. And then - we need to experiment, in special tournaments, for example.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to rebellious
User Avatar
Offline Дубровин Павел
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 1,832
Auto-translated
Against allowing the installation of the Grail.
What negative consequences this could lead to.
I was just reviewing a controversial save game when the Player dug up the Grail after 3 attempts on 3 obelisks (there were no crosses, of course).
Of course, I allow for a certain percentage probability that the Player played fairly and didn't look for where the Grail was located, but I give an even greater percentage probability that the Player cheated. And by defending the rights of one Player (who dug up the Grail), we must also think about his opponent, who may have been left "in the lurch," because comparing the percentage probability of fair/unfair play in this case falls into the category of "grandmother said it twice" (i.e., very uncertain).
С истиной где-то рядом...





Лето 2010.
1
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline RiMpel2
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 2,985
Auto-translated
Pavel, the Grail seems to be located in the 4 cells at the intersection of the diagonals, so finding it on the third attempt isn't luck, but rather the opposite – it's a sign of skill. And there's no need to talk about viewing the map here.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Pit for LM
User Avatar
Offline RomarioGrom
Statistics
Registered:
Posts: 816
Auto-translated
as well as some other techniques, like how to dig up the Grail on level 111, etc. I put that treasure on level 131, the Grail in the Flax area, under GM5, and that’s it; that’s the whole game.


ICQ (559716573)

Стримы
http://ru.twitch.tv/romariogrom/videos?kind=past_broadcasts
0
⚖️
0

Statistics

12k / 1.15M Discussions 699 Wiki pages 1.8k Maps
55k Members

Library

Welcome our newest member: Emil

Users Online 7 users 1288 guests

Today's Visitors 11